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Manouchehr M.
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 Posted: Tue 01 May, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: Nepalese and Indian koras |
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As some friends expressed their interest in koras, I am opening a thread on these fascinating weapons.
The first example in an Indian kora witha typical Indian tulwar hilt.
Courtesy of Ashoka Arts
"A good quality old Indian weapon similar to the Nepalese kora. Steel hilt retaining very attractive silver damascened decoration in excellent condition, heavy steel blade with thickened 't-section' spine with forward leaning broadening tip which is missing a corner, otherwise excellent condition. North India, 19th century."
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http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Tue 01 May, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: |
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That is an excellent looking sword. What can you tell us about this unique weapon, Manouchehr?
Jonathan
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Tue 01 May, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Jonathan Hopkins wrote: | That is an excellent looking sword. What can you tell us about this unique weapon, Manouchehr?
Jonathan |
Jonathan,
Like other koras, the cutting edge i on the inside and like tulwards your wrist is locked so that certain movements should be applied to this weapon. A very interesting one for sure.
Kind regards
Manouchehr
http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
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Korey J. Lavoie
Location: New Hampshire, USA Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Wed 02 May, 2007 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Manouchehr, very prompt.
The Kora must be a devastating Hacking and slashing weapon: I'm curious about where the cutting edges are located on this type of Sword: is the almost ax-like portion at the top of the Blade commonly sharpened on the Kora? It seems as though it would be just about as effective either way but I've never been able to discern if there is a sharpened edge on the top portion in the few examples that I've seen. Also, are there any examples of Double-edged versions? It would seem that a double-edged blade or a cutting edge starting a few inches from the point where it curves forward would be highly effective.
From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
-The Clash: The Card Cheat
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 02 May, 2007 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Here is a Topic for reference about European Medieval choppers:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ht=chopper
As one can see their is some resemblance to the Kora in the way the wide tip of the weapon is scalloped in a series of arcs.
With these I always have wondered if the scalloping is functional or purely an aesthetic feature ?
A big difference with the Kora is the pronounced curve at the end but if one made a straiter version it would look very similar to the European choppers. 
Just wondering if this is due to the two being related in some way in a similar way that the Kukri is thought to maybe be related to the Falcata ? Or just coincidence ?
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Korey J. Lavoie
Location: New Hampshire, USA Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Wed 02 May, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Here is a Topic for reference about European Medieval choppers:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ht=chopper
As one can see their is some resemblance to the Kora in the way the wide tip of the weapon is scalloped in a series of arcs.
With these I always have wondered if the scalloping is functional or purely an aesthetic feature ?
A big difference with the Kora is the pronounced curve at the end but if one made a straiter version it would look very similar to the European choppers.
Just wondering if this is due to the two being related in some way in a similar way that the Kukri is thought to maybe be related to the Falcata ? Or just coincidence ? |
Good point Jean, I would argue the scalloped portion could act in a similar fashion to a flanged mace. The profile does remind me of the flange on a Gothic Mace in how it flows to the points. Either way, if you flicked your wrist and smacked someone across the fore-head with that side, they would not be getting up any time soon. You are right that they do look very similar but I can almost too easily see the Maciejowski Choppers having evolved independently: Specifically, the Maciejowski Choppers look as though they evolved from someone simply removing portions of the back of a straight-bladed chopping weapon in order to improve handling characteristics and/or to make them more versatile Weapons. The only major difference between the Kora and the Maciejowski Choppers may be the curvature but it is a highly significant difference in form even though they had similar functions . . . I'd like an experts opinion on the subject too though.
From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
-The Clash: The Card Cheat
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Kerim Mamedov
Location: Poland Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Wed 02 May, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
Just wondering if this is due to the two being related in some way in a similar way that the Kukri is thought to maybe be related to the Falcata ? Or just coincidence ? |
Do you mean Godenak? My point is to coincidence. choping blade was simply too good idea, to be discovered only in one place.
And I,m not shure that Kukri is related to Falcata, well, not the way Falcata is related to Makheira.
If I'll look for relative for kukri, I'll rather take a look to Ayda Katti, or Parang Ginah (cutting ege inside)
I alswo saw pix of some sword-long kukris with talwar hilt.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 02 May, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Kerim Mamedov wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
Just wondering if this is due to the two being related in some way in a similar way that the Kukri is thought to maybe be related to the Falcata ? Or just coincidence ? |
Do you mean Godenak? My point is to coincidence. choping blade was simply too good idea, to be discovered only in one place.
And I,m not shure that Kukri is related to Falcata, well, not the way Falcata is related to Makheira.
If I'll look for relative for kukri, I'll rather take a look to Ayda Katti, or Parang Ginah (cutting ege inside)
I alswo saw pix of some sword-long kukris with talwar hilt. |
Coincidence is very probable but it's the scalloping of the tip that is very similar that I find most interesting: With either is it mostly aesthetics or purposeful design.
The idea of the Godenak's scalloping being useable like a single flanged mace is something I also brought up in a previous Topic. With the curve of the Kora this feature might be useable without reversing the weapon ?
Very much speculation: Are there period records i.e. martial arts that go into detail about how the Kora was used ?
This might confirm or contradict the function or non-function of the scalloped tip.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| Korey J. Lavoie wrote: | Thank you Manouchehr, very prompt.
The Kora must be a devastating Hacking and slashing weapon: I'm curious about where the cutting edges are located on this type of Sword: is the almost ax-like portion at the top of the Blade commonly sharpened on the Kora? It seems as though it would be just about as effective either way but I've never been able to discern if there is a sharpened edge on the top portion in the few examples that I've seen. Also, are there any examples of Double-edged versions? It would seem that a double-edged blade or a cutting edge starting a few inches from the point where it curves forward would be highly effective. |
Korey,
You are very welcome my friend. Kora is indeed a devastating hacking and chopping weapon. Cutting edges are on the concave side throughout the whole length of the blade including the top areas. I am not aware of any double-edged ones.
Kind regards
Manouchehr
http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Here is a Topic for reference about European Medieval choppers:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ht=chopper
As one can see their is some resemblance to the Kora in the way the wide tip of the weapon is scalloped in a series of arcs.
With these I always have wondered if the scalloping is functional or purely an aesthetic feature ?
A big difference with the Kora is the pronounced curve at the end but if one made a straiter version it would look very similar to the European choppers.
Just wondering if this is due to the two being related in some way in a similar way that the Kukri is thought to maybe be related to the Falcata ? Or just coincidence ? |
Jean,
Thank you very much for sharing. Where is the cutting edged on that piece? Sorry I am a bit lost.
Kind regards
Manouchehr
http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
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Korey J. Lavoie
Location: New Hampshire, USA Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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The cutting edge is on the straight side while the scalloped side is commonly blunt,one of the reproductions from that thread appears to be double-edged though. I've always found it funny how hard it can be to tell where the cutting edges are on a piece from looking at most photographs. Something I'll have to keep in mind if I ever want to photograph a blade with unique proportions.
From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
-The Clash: The Card Cheat
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Manouchehr M. wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Here is a Topic for reference about European Medieval choppers:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ht=chopper
As one can see their is some resemblance to the Kora in the way the wide tip of the weapon is scalloped in a series of arcs.
With these I always have wondered if the scalloping is functional or purely an aesthetic feature ?
A big difference with the Kora is the pronounced curve at the end but if one made a straiter version it would look very similar to the European choppers.
Just wondering if this is due to the two being related in some way in a similar way that the Kukri is thought to maybe be related to the Falcata ? Or just coincidence ? |
Jean,
Thank you very much for sharing. Where is the cutting edged on that piece? Sorry I am a bit lost.
Kind regards
Manouchehr |
The cutting edge is on the bottom edge and NOT on the scalloped side. The edge is almost strait except for near the tip where there is an area of curve and recurve.
Some of the others shown in some of the period art may be different as there seems to be a few sub-types shown.
Oh, no examples have ever been found as far as I know and our only sources are period artwork.
I have an inexpensive MRL reproduction that probably is much to light in blade thickness ? ( Hard to know obviously )
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Manouchehr M.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Manouchehr M. wrote: | Thank you very much Jean.
KInd regards
Manouchehr |
So getting back to the Kora: I assume you mean that the Kora is sharp on the inside curved edge ( which I was aware of ) and I assume what you call the " top areas " is what I call the scalloped areas ?
The inside edge would be the primary edge used for most cutting with the sharpened scalloped area maybe having the function of a single sharpened flanged mace or almost axe-like ? Is this an accurate assumption ? Do we have some knowledge about the swordsmanship style that used the Kora ?
Oh, the Kora is Nepalese as is the Kukri if I'm not mistaken: Different designs doing the same thing of putting a lot of emphasis on heavy cutting with different blade profiles.
Just wondering if you have more information about the way the Kora was used ?
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Kerim Mamedov
Location: Poland Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Fri 04 May, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Very much speculation: Are there period records i.e. martial arts that go into detail about how the Kora was used ?
This might confirm or contradict the function or non-function of the scalloped tip. |
Talking about speculation - here is my one
What if scalloped tip support penertrating momentum?
I draw a posible "morphing" from hammer to kora, what do you think?
I just can not belive anyone in past times was making essential element of blade only for estetic reason
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Fri 04 May, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Manouchehr M. wrote: | Thank you very much Jean.
KInd regards
Manouchehr |
So getting back to the Kora: I assume you mean that the Kora is sharp on the inside curved edge ( which I was aware of ) and I assume what you call the " top areas " is what I call the scalloped areas ?
The inside edge would be the primary edge used for most cutting with the sharpened scalloped area maybe having the function of a single sharpened flanged mace or almost axe-like ? Is this an accurate assumption ? Do we have some knowledge about the swordsmanship style that used the Kora ?
Oh, the Kora is Nepalese as is the Kukri if I'm not mistaken: Different designs doing the same thing of putting a lot of emphasis on heavy cutting with different blade profiles.
Just wondering if you have more information about the way the Kora was used ? |
Jean
I think you are right. Years ago in a Kukri forum a member there did some light test cutting witha kora and the scalloped are also cut into the target leaving its nasty marks. I am not aware of swordsmanship of kora. But then again our knowledge on this weapon is very rudimentary until someone does field research in the region and finds out more. Yes it is Nepalese weapon but there is also an Indian version of it the same with kukris I think in some gatka styles they use kukris if I am not mistaken.
KInd regards
Manouchehr
http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Fri 04 May, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Kerim Mamedov wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Very much speculation: Are there period records i.e. martial arts that go into detail about how the Kora was used ?
This might confirm or contradict the function or non-function of the scalloped tip. |
Talking about speculation - here is my one
What if scalloped tip support penertrating momentum?
I draw a posible "morphing" from hammer to kora, what do you think?
I just can not belive anyone in past times was making essential element of blade only for estetic reason |
Good drawing Kerin, and a nice comparison.
Kind regards
Manouchehr
http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Sat 05 May, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Dear friends,
The next is a Nepalese kora. Look at the shape of the handle, typical of that region and also the blade profile.
Courtesy of Oriental Arms
"Kora swords were used in Nepal and North India for both fighting and sacrificial processes. They are quite similar, only the sacrificial sword is wider and heavier. This one is basically a fighter of very good quality. Heavy, down curving, blade, with its deadly sharp edge on the concave side and with wide heavy tip. This one has a 20 inches blade, 4 inches at the tip. The tip is marked with the Eye talisman marking, painted red. Ckassical handle with disk shaped pommel and cross guard. Original leather cover on the grip ( quite scarce). Total length 26 inches. Very good condition."
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http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
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Korey J. Lavoie
Location: New Hampshire, USA Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sat 05 May, 2007 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Manouchehr M. wrote: | Dear friends,
The next is a Nepalese kora. Look at the shape of the handle, typical of that region and also the blade profile.
Courtesy of Oriental Arms
"Kora swords were used in Nepal and North India for both fighting and sacrificial processes. They are quite similar, only the sacrificial sword is wider and heavier. This one is basically a fighter of very good quality. Heavy, down curving, blade, with its deadly sharp edge on the concave side and with wide heavy tip. This one has a 20 inches blade, 4 inches at the tip. The tip is marked with the Eye talisman marking, painted red. Ckassical handle with disk shaped pommel and cross guard. Original leather cover on the grip ( quite scarce). Total length 26 inches. Very good condition." |
Looks very utilitarian, saying that it's in good condition is almost an understatement. That one looks nearly in Mint condition. Can you please tell me the significance of the Eye Talisman marking Manouchehr? Thank you again.
From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
-The Clash: The Card Cheat
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Sat 05 May, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Korey J. Lavoie wrote: | | Manouchehr M. wrote: | Dear friends,
The next is a Nepalese kora. Look at the shape of the handle, typical of that region and also the blade profile.
Courtesy of Oriental Arms
"Kora swords were used in Nepal and North India for both fighting and sacrificial processes. They are quite similar, only the sacrificial sword is wider and heavier. This one is basically a fighter of very good quality. Heavy, down curving, blade, with its deadly sharp edge on the concave side and with wide heavy tip. This one has a 20 inches blade, 4 inches at the tip. The tip is marked with the Eye talisman marking, painted red. Ckassical handle with disk shaped pommel and cross guard. Original leather cover on the grip ( quite scarce). Total length 26 inches. Very good condition." |
Looks very utilitarian, saying that it's in good condition is almost an understatement. That one looks nearly in Mint condition. Can you please tell me the significance of the Eye Talisman marking Manouchehr? Thank you again. |
You are welcome KOrey. Give me some time and I will get back to you.
KInd regards
Manouchehr
http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
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