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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Apr, 2024 4:36 pm    Post subject: Two Tod Cutler Knives         Reply with quote

Introduction
Throughout human history, many people have regularly carried utility knives to help with everyday tasks like eating, cooking, cleaning game, cutting lines or laces, or a host of other things. Fixed-bladed knives of many eras can have tangs that pass completely through a grip or tangs to which scales have been affixed. Grips throughout history have often been mostly of organic material, with wood, bone, and horn being common. These materials, in addition to being plentiful, are durable, easy to shape, and attractive when finished.

The subjects of this review are two fixed-bladed knives that could both fit in the medieval era or early Renaissance. Their forms and construction, though, are not so dissimilar from modern knives. One, which will be referred to as “Knife 1” has a through (whittle) tang and multi-piece grip made of bone, horn, and brass. The other knife, “Knife 2,” has a scale tang where the horn and brass grips have been affixed with rivets.

Overview
Tod Cutler is a production product line sold by Leo “Tod” Todeschini in Oxford in the United Kingdom. Unlike Tod’s Workshop products that are built completely in Tod’s shop, Tod Cutler items are made elsewhere to Tod’s specifications. Tod Cutler pieces are designed fit a lower price point while providing quality products on (generally) an in-stock basis. Most of these pieces, like Knife 1, are of Tod’s design. A small handful, like Knife 2, are pieces that others retail as well, though I would trust the quality control of pieces Tod stamps with his mark more than the same pieces retailed by others.

Knife 1 (Bone and horn grip) Measurements and specifications:
Weight: 3.5 ounces
Overall length: 8 1/4 inches
Blade length: 4 1/2 inches
Blade width: 3/4 inches at base, tapering to 5/8 inches
Grip length: 3 1/2 inches

Knife 2 (Horn grip) Measurements and specifications:
Weight: 3 ounces
Overall length: 9 inches
Blade length: 5 3/8 inches, with a 5 inch cutting edge
Blade width: 7/8 inches at the base of the cutting edge, tapering to 1/2 inches
Grip length: 3 5/8 inches
Replicas created by Tod Cutler of Oxford, UK.

Handling Characteristics
One of the main criteria of an effective tool is to be safely and easily wieldable. These knives, though their grips are shaped quite differently, fit that criterion. The horn and bone grip of Knife 1 sits easily in the hand, with its octagonal cross section giving plenty of purchase. The polished organic materials are not slick and mate seamlessly with the brass elements for a comfortable grip. The blade is shorter than Knife 2, but is broader and thicker. It feels like a solid knife that would serve as easily at the table as in the field. Knife 2’s grip is no less comfortable or secure but feels quite different in the hand. The
shape of the blade as it meets the grip means that your index finger is often off the grip, resting against the unsharpened swell at the base of the blade. Your thumb sits naturally on the blade’s spine, giving plenty of leverage when needed. While it may look more delicate to some, it is robust enough to suit a variety of tasks. The grips of both knives are thicker at the end farthest from the point and taper distally to differing degrees.

Fit and Finish
Both knives are well-finished, especially given their prices. Both are sharp, with all the parts well-fitted and possessing no gaps or rough spots. The blades of both knives do exhibit a matte finish that shows fairly obvious vertical (Knife 1) or diagonal (Knife 2) striations that indicate the directions the blades must have traveled during their final polishing and/or sharpening. Each blade is marked with the Tod Cutler bifurcated circle. The horn parts of both grips are mostly a glossy black, with small and pleasing amounts of grays and white swirled in.

Knife 1 is, to me, is more characteristic of Tod’s design work and execution. A similar design was part of Tod Cutler’s predecessor English Cutler line. However, this knife is an improvement in every way over that one. The shapes are more refined and elegant and the level of fit and finish is higher. Of the two knives under discussion here, the two layered scabbard of Knife 1 is far nicer, with more detail and a nicely historical stepped flap through which the suspension thong passes. The decoration on the scabbard is simple, but well executed.

Knife 2 is a less expensive knife with less of Tod’s influence in its design and execution. The brass liners and hollow, tubular rivets contrast nicely with the dark horn grip. The scabbard is a single layer of thick, somewhat stiff leather. The design on it appears to be stamped, as the impression towards the tip appears faint or incompletely struck.

Conclusion
These knives are an interesting study in contrasts. First, they represent different price points. At the time of this writing, Knife 1 is not quite twice as expensive as Knife 2, but has a higher level of detail. The stainless steel blade of Knife 2 will appeal to some (and not others), but both are sharp and will serve well in a variety of tasks. The scabbards are quite different in terms of look, detail, execution, and construction, but fill their role well. While both are perfectly functional and attractive, the visual appeal and execution of Knife 1 is more at home alongside custom knives in my collection, while Knife 2 is more likely to sit in a desk drawer and be used for a variety of tasks around the house and garage. However, either will fit a variety of historical kits and modern home uses, while not straining most budgets unduly.



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ChadA

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Victor R.




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PostPosted: Fri 19 Apr, 2024 12:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I nearly got the second one a couple or three years ago, but was put off by the stainless blade. Got this one, instead. Use it almost daily - makes a great little paring knife, in addition to it's "stated" purpose.


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Last edited by Victor R. on Sat 20 Apr, 2024 3:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Apr, 2024 1:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From the Attachment Guide in the Info section:

Quote:
Images that are wider than 800 pixels or taller than 800 pixels will be displayed as a link rather than embedded in the post. This allows members with a lower bandwidth connection to enjoy their browsing experience without having to download every overly-large graphic and prevents the image from expanding past the forum's page width.


I always cut mine down to 699 pixels wide or tall (which ever is the larger). That tends to take care of the file size limit, too. But your mileage may vary. Happy

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Victor R.




Location: Klein, Texas
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Apr, 2024 3:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Two parameters are listed either on top of the page or in a link, but that one doesn't show up unless you know where to dig... Any idea how annoying that is for people that just want to use the site and enjoy themselves? There are three separate limiters applied, and they are shown in three different places.

And, apparently, getting them to attach in the proper order is another secret. Mad WTF?!
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Apr, 2024 6:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Victor R. wrote:
Two parameters are listed either on top of the page or in a link, but that one doesn't show up unless you know where to dig... Any idea how annoying that is for people that just want to use the site and enjoy themselves? There are three separate limiters applied, and they are shown in three different places.

And, apparently, getting them to attach in the proper order is another secret. Mad WTF?!


Victor,
Sorry you find it frustrating. Worried Some of the info is stored/displayed in baked-in locations that can’t be updated/changed/added to. Other info is stored where it can be/where the software allows. The file size limit is, quite frankly, outdated and comes from earlier times when users may have still been billed by ISPs/cell providers based on data downloads and when the site’s hosting charge was based on bandwidth used. The file size limits are something that almost certainly would change when/if the software gets updated.

The picture order is actually pretty simple, though I don’t know why the forum software does it: the final submitted post will always display the attachments in the order in which you attached them (first one attached first, etc.). The Preview Post function, though, always displays them in the reverse order (last attached image first). That’s an issue with the version of phpBB we’re running and isn’t new.

Back to the thread? Happy

Happy

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2024 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Two Tod Cutler Knives         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
The stainless steel blade of Knife 2 will appeal to some (and not others)


I know it's weird to quote yourself, but I'm curious as to people's thoughts on stainless steel in an eating/utility knife reproduction. Clearly, stainless steel didn't exist back then, but neither did 5160, EN45, 1075 or other modern alloys that often get used. i don't trust stainless steel in sword lengths due to the high potential for brittleness, but I think in an application like this, it can have advantages that our ancestors likely would have really enjoyed. Thoughts?

Happy

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Dan Kary





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PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2024 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Two Tod Cutler Knives         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Chad Arnow wrote:
The stainless steel blade of Knife 2 will appeal to some (and not others)


I know it's weird to quote yourself, but I'm curious as to people's thoughts on stainless steel in an eating/utility knife reproduction. Clearly, stainless steel didn't exist back then, but neither did 5160, EN45, 1075 or other modern alloys that often get used. i don't trust stainless steel in sword lengths due to the high potential for brittleness, but I think in an application like this, it can have advantages that our ancestors likely would have really enjoyed. Thoughts?


I think your point that neither did they have 5160, EN45, 1075, etc. is convincing. One thing that really bothered me about Japanese swords was that they have no ability to flex - they just stay bent (until you unbent them). Now, however, you can get them that flex a fair bit and with a genuine hamon so they can look more or less right and I think that's a good thing. Furthermore, there's a safety issues for practitioners. Original steels, as I understand, where much more likely to have catastrophic failures due to treatments being uneven, impurities in steel, etc. So when it comes to steels I think I am okay with the advantages of modern steels as long as it looks right. I don't see why this shouldn't apply to stainless for eating knives (although stainless also has some disadvantages in this regard).

Sort of a related example is a shield I have - it is a separ. Historical examples had padding which was straw in a leather pillow that was attached to the shield. The one I have has the leather pillow but it is foam inside. I think that this is the best of both worlds and it still looks right and the stuff on the outside is still the right material. So I don't mind compromises like this on some things. Modern glues, etc. are fine (probably better?) as long as it looks right and is built right. Other things, I would hate. Like if somebody decided to use plastic instead of bone or horn (like the eating knives you show). I'd hate that. Other examples would be fake leather, fake silk, etc. I'd hate those too.

I think different opinions will be abounds here...I'm sure some want everything done exactly the way they were before...

One other thing to keep in mind is that, probably, if people back then had the option to take modern blades with them back in time with them, they would surely care that it looked right (it couldn't look like it was made by magic and it would have to fit the fashions of the time), but would prefer the modern steels. I don't know if that's really convincing, but it is something to consider.

Of course I might be way off base here and a medieval person could tell the difference in the steels by looking at them, but I don't think that's right...you could probably tell differences in manufacture, but not the chemistry? I don't know. I'm sure there's plenty of makers here who could set me straight.
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Victor R.




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2024 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Two Tod Cutler Knives         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Chad Arnow wrote:
The stainless steel blade of Knife 2 will appeal to some (and not others)


I know it's weird to quote yourself, but I'm curious as to people's thoughts on stainless steel in an eating/utility knife reproduction. Clearly, stainless steel didn't exist back then, but neither did 5160, EN45, 1075 or other modern alloys that often get used. i don't trust stainless steel in sword lengths due to the high potential for brittleness, but I think in an application like this, it can have advantages that our ancestors likely would have really enjoyed. Thoughts?

I have modern stainless knives and cutlery, but for something like this I don't want it. Even though the steel alloy may be different, the "look" and performance is very similar, so I prefer the non-stainless for such items. My favorite knives in the past have been my grandparents' old carbon steel knives. I like patina, and knives are made for working, not doing your make up or checking your hair.
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Dan D'Silva





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PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2024 3:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Comparing pictures of heavily-used old knives, it seems to me like stainless ones often (maybe not always) wind up with bright scratches and no patina, so they look sparkly, while non-stainless goes grey. So maybe if you want to keep an authentic look for pre-20th-century reenactment or living history, non-stainless is preferable even just aesthetically.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2024 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting points so far. Happy My collection doesn’t see heavy reenactment use so there isn’t an appreciable difference in finish appearance right now. Generally speaking, I typically prefer replicas to use steel alloys that approximate period performance. I can’t afford uber-historical bloomery steels so the modern steels makers use will have to suffice. Happy

In the case of this one knife, though, the stainless thing doesn’t bug me too much since I really use it as a letter opener/misc tool around the house. Not having to wipe it down after use is handy, too.

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2024 4:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just for fun, here’s the old English Cutler version of the bone/horn knife, plus the current one reviewed above.

Old version:


New version:

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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Apr, 2024 11:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Chad for the original post and your thoughts and observations.

Obviously I make all the Tods Workshop pieces, but the Tod Cutler are a combination between work here in my workshops and work from outside, but it is all done in small batches and following my patterns and with me very carefully checking quality, dimensions, materials etc.

Where Tods Workshops is all about my individual passion and less about business, Tod Cutler is without doubt about passion for the subject, but inevitably also has to have half an eye on commercial decisions. One of those decisions was in the early days being offered 3 eating knife designs that were nicely medieval so we used those. However of my entire range of over 100 knives it is just those three that are not designed and specified by me, however as Chad suggests, I keep a canny eye on production.

The stainless/carbon aspect is an intriguing one. All of my daggers and swords are carbon spring steel and the eating knives are actually a mixture. My personal preference when reenacting is for a carbon knife because it is really as close as we can reasonably get and it does colour just as 'old' steel did. However we sell lots of knives, all of which we need to keep clean and having the small knives in a 'non rust' material is very helpful. Perhaps part of this decision is also that a surprising amount of people simply get horrified by food related blades that are not spotlessly clean and into that fits staining.

Basically it is easier for me and most people, (but not all) prefer stainless, but your opinions are definitely welcome.

Tod

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