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G. Scott H.
Location: Arizona, USA Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 410
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 Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 1:45 am Post subject: MRL "Italian Cut & Thrust" |
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Just a little heads up: new at MRL: http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/showproduct.asp . One of the nicer designs I've seen from Windlass in a while. :)
Sorry, the link just takes you to their site, not the specific page. :wtf: Here's a pic:
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: |
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The Sword of St. Michael is another interesting new offering from MRL.
[ Linked Image ]
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Michael F.
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Looks like they have some new and interesting stuff. The Sword of St. Michael is a double edged falchion. That something i've never heard before, plus, normally the definition of Falchion ussually includes the fact that it is single edged. Does anyone know if the newer Windlass models are being hot or cold peened?
"Tis but a scratch.....A scratch? your arm's off!"-- Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 9:21 am Post subject: |
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They have a new "English" Rondel in the catalog too.
Price was low enough I ordered one, but it is already on backorder.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Michael F. wrote: | | Does anyone know if the newer Windlass models are being hot or cold peened? |
I'd assume they're still cold-peened and/or screwed-on as they always have been.
Hot peening seems to be one of the new buzz words. Many refer to Albion's entire assembly method as hot-peening. Hot peening refers simply to heating the tang with a torch and peening it over the pommel and has nothing to do whether the pommel or guard are wedged on or slipped on to the tang. The hot peening is supposed to relieve stresses associated with hammering. I'd wager cold-peening the tang is fairly historic, though. They didn't have oxy-acetylene torches back then. :)
Did you mean hot peened or were you talking about slip-on components vs. wedged on components? MRL and Del Tin use slip-on, with the whole assembly secured by cold-peening. Albion uses wedged on, with the guard and pommel individually wedged/fitted to the blade. The hot peening further secures the pommel.
The real concerns about loosening and durability come from whether the assembly is held together by compression or whether the guard and pommel have been wedged into place prior to peening of any kind. In the compression method, guard, grip and pommel are slipped onto the tang. They are secured by cold-peening, since the heat of hot peening would destroy the grip already in place. Del Tin and A&A use this method, as does MRL on swords where the pommel isn't screwed on. This puts pressure on the grip. The grip can loosen over time as the stress and climate changes affect it. The wedged-on method Albion uses secures the guard and pommel via super-tight fits and cold-peening the guard and/or pommel to the tang. The tang is heated and peened over the already-wedged-on pommel (Albion's method), though the tang could be secured by cold-peening as well.
:)
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Sean Flynt
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Sean Flynt
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Michael F.
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | Michael F. wrote: | | Does anyone know if the newer Windlass models are being hot or cold peened? |
I'd assume they're still cold-peened and/or screwed-on as they always have been.
Hot peening seems to be one of the new buzz words. Many refer to Albion's entire assembly method as hot-peening. Hot peening refers simply to heating the tang with a torch and peening it over the pommel and has nothing to do whether the pommel or guard are wedged on or slipped on to the tang. The hot peening is supposed to relieve stresses associated with hammering. I'd wager cold-peening the tang is fairly historic, though. They didn't have oxy-acetylene torches back then. :)
Did you mean hot peened or were you talking about slip-on components vs. wedged on components? MRL and Del Tin use slip-on, with the whole assembly secured by cold-peening. Albion uses wedged on, with the guard and pommel individually wedged/fitted to the blade. The hot peening further secures the pommel.
The real concerns about loosening and durability come from whether the assembly is held together by compression or whether the guard and pommel have been wedged into place prior to peening of any kind. In the compression method, guard, grip and pommel are slipped onto the tang. They are secured by cold-peening, since the heat of hot peening would destroy the grip already in place. Del Tin and A&A use this method, as does MRL on swords where the pommel isn't screwed on. This puts pressure on the grip. The grip can loosen over time as the stress and climate changes affect it. The wedged-on method Albion uses secures the guard and pommel via super-tight fits and cold-peening the guard and/or pommel to the tang. The tang is heated and peened over the already-wedged-on pommel (Albion's method), though the tang could be secured by cold-peening as well. |
Aha, I get it now...I'm becoming less ignorant everyday. On your question about slip on and wedged components- I didnt really think about that when first thinking about it- Thank you for bringing that up. I just meant roughly hot peened.
You mentioned cold peening is fairly historic- I wonder if they cold peened the pommel before they added the grip?? (If I am wrong somebody please corrects me). Because they didn't have the blow torch type things, how did they hot peen the pommels if they did at all. (anyone can PM me if they have any info. I dont want to be stealing the thread! :) ).
Thanks!
MIchael F.
"Tis but a scratch.....A scratch? your arm's off!"-- Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
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Tom Carr
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 11:36 am Post subject: |
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I think you could be right Sean! Looks like they misinterpeted the picture. The light is catching the hollow ground edge and the perspective leaves the back of the blade in shadow, giving a false impression of a double edge blade. Still, it's an interesting piece! Almost worth it just for the fittings. If some one was handy and carefull, they could also grind down the back a little, flattening the back edge and giving it a more pronounced curve and clipped point. Hmmmmm! Ideas! Ideas!
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 11:43 am Post subject: |
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When I got the catalog and saw the piece, I immediately looked for that picture. I also felt they were misinterpreting the painting, but who knows. MRL said the sword was on backorder for 30 days.
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 11:54 am Post subject: |
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The more I think about it, the more I think MRL just botched it with this falchion/storta/malchus. I can be convinced otherwise, but I'd have to see evidence of a DE original. Otherwise, it's the grinder....
By the way, here's a fragment from another famous piece by the same artist (Battle of the Nudes). He obviously had an eye for this weapon. Look at the detail of the scabbards! This is last half of the 15th c. This illustration also anwers the question, "what's worse than having to fight an opponent armed with a 2' long razor?"
 Attachment: 100.37 KB
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
Last edited by Sean Flynt on Wed 29 Jun, 2005 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Michael F. wrote: | You mentioned cold peening is fairly historic- I wonder if they cold peened the pommel before they added the grip?
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Michael,
That would depend on how the grip is constructed. In this thread the two main methods of building a grip are outlined. If the grip core is made in one piece via boring and burning, then the pommel would have to be placed on the tang after the grip and peened as the last step in the process.
:)
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Since this thread is branching out to talk about other brand new MRL offerings, I'll post this here. I'd love to see a slightly aged version of their new Sword of Granson. The desing of that one looks surprisingly well done, particularly the guard and pommel. In its brightly polished state it's slightly gaudy to my eyes (though not necessarily non-period), but with just a smidgeon of aging applied it could look very stately.
Anothe possibilty would be to do a leather wrap on the grip and chemically darken the fittings, which would give a slightly bronze appearance. Man, I'm too broke and busy lately for a DYI project, but I see some potential in that sword.
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Sam Barris
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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After the Irish Hand and a Half Sword, I swore to never again purchase a Windlass blade, but I really like the Italian Cut and Thrust Sword. It has nice lines. Not as nice as the Del Tin cut and thrust MRL offered many years ago (and reviewed here, if memory serves) but still very nice. Pity it would eat up half of my Crecy fund.
Pax,
Sam Barris
"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Mark Mattimore
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| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Fults wrote: | They have a new "English" Rondel in the catalog too.
Price was low enough I ordered one, but it is already on backorder. |
Backorder already!?! :evil: That is not good news as I was getting ready to order one for myself.
In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro.
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Shane Smith
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| Posted: Thu 30 Jun, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean Flynt wrote: | I wonder if they've misinterpreted the painting. Rather than being double-edged, this blade could be a standard, single-edge storta blade with two hollowgrindings creating a strengthening mid rib. Can't tell from the poor-quality online image of the painting. Off to my wife's art history texts!
Worst case, I get the piece and grind the back flat :D |
I'd almost bet it's a single-edged messer in the painting.
Shane Smith
ARMA~ Virginia Beach
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 30 Jun, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Mattimore wrote: | | Joe Fults wrote: | They have a new "English" Rondel in the catalog too.
Price was low enough I ordered one, but it is already on backorder. |
Backorder already!?! :evil: That is not good news as I was getting ready to order one for myself. |
MRL usually advertises the product right before they get them in stock, so I'm sure that's what they mean by backorder. I was told 30 days.
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Thu 30 Jun, 2005 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Grandy wrote: | | Mark Mattimore wrote: | | Joe Fults wrote: | They have a new "English" Rondel in the catalog too.
Price was low enough I ordered one, but it is already on backorder. |
Backorder already!?! :evil: That is not good news as I was getting ready to order one for myself. |
MRL usually advertises the product right before they get them in stock, so I'm sure that's what they mean by backorder. I was told 30 days. |
Prolly same difference...did you order one then?
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 30 Jun, 2005 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I ordered the Sword of St. Michael instead. I'm awfully curious. :)
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This is a standard topic
