[Bob Burns]

Hey Nick, please don't give it a second thought, I was pretty sure you were joking and I like that kind of humor, there is nothing to apologize for Nick, we are "Good"!

Hi Chad, apparently the laquer was taken off by the same "someone" who also sharpened the sword, in fact all three Del Tin swords that Ryan had in stock were from the same person who must have sharpened all three as well as having removed the laquer. Ryan did not get these from Del Tin, he traded for them with someone.
I have seen Del Tin Swords in their original state at a sword vendor "Mayhawk" at the Bristol Renaissance Faire and I thought I noticed a laquer finish. One thing for sure, I saw how dull the edges are as shipped by Del Tin. They make Windlass swords look sharp!

OK, Everyone, Here's the photographs that you have requested, on photo number 06 you will see that grinding line in the fuller that was done by Del Tin, of which I am going to try and get that out of the steel.
I am not done working on this blade, I am done grinding it though, because I've got it where I want the blade to be, stout but lively, my wife said she could really see the difference when I held the hilt horizontal to the floor and banged on the pommel.

All comments, criticisms good or bad, mellow or bam straight down the pipe! Are Most Welcome! Please do not hold back what you have to say. Because, I want to learn and I am like that with everything in this hobby!
For instance, several times by phone and email I have notified Christopher Poor and Craig Johnson at Arms & Armor that if and when I order something with any kind of custom work done, if my idea is not that good or even stupid, to please tell me so and don't hold back Because no matter what, not for any reason will Arms & Armor ever lose my business
Not a chance! I like those guys too much for that to ever happen!
OK, here's the photo links and slam the criticisms home if they apply! No offense will be taken by me! None!

Very Sincerely!

Bob

[Nick B.]

Hey Bob,
That looks like hell. I think my Grandmother could have done a better job ten years after she was dead.
Only joking again. Looks great, can't even see where the change was made. Albion look out.

[Bob Burns]

! Now that was a Gonnad Buster hahahahahaha! Followed by a beautiful compliment that really made me feel good inside!
Thank You Nick!

Bob

[Jared Smith]

Wow! That looks really good. If I understood your initial description, you did not have to do anything to the fuller? I'd have to say it looks professionally done. What grit belts did you use?

[Dan Dickinson]

Looks good Bob! The cylinders/wheels on a sander/grinder definitely have their uses in blade grinding, but good job of being careful and not allowing them to mess this one up. Maybe I missed it, but what are the new stats?
Thanks,
Dan

[Jean Thibodeau]

Bob;

I can't say that I can see anything wrong or obviously wrong in the pics.

Since this sword has a fuller running most of the length of the blade grinding it may have been a little easier than if there was a central ridge to keep centered, strait and symmetrical on both sides of the blade.

This isn't a criticism only a technical comment/question. Also easier to maintain but thin already existing bevels than making them from scratch.

Oh, as long as the bevels are maintained no problem but if one starts to mess up one can keep on making it worse rather than better: One could compare it to shortening one leg of a chair too much and them messing up the job of evening out the other legs.

Having enumerated a few of the things that could have gone terribly wrong I guess you can take it as a longwinded way of saying " GOOD JOB ". ( A little teasing of my own and you wanted some criticism, right ! ).

[Bob Burns]

WOW! So many flattering comments, you guys have really "Made My Day"!

Fullered blade VS flat diamond cross section. Jean, I am wiithout question that following the central ridge of a flat diamond cross section would be a tough one for sure, but I'm game! LOL But I'm NOT touching one of my Arms & Armor Swords
On the more narrow sides which are created by a central fuller running the entire length of the blade exept for the point process, I would gues is equally tough, because you have a more narrow substrate to follow in keeping an even contact with the sanding belt, but I really don't know, because I've never ground any sword, dagger, polearm or knife before having done this Del Tin.
Distal compared to proximal portion of blade, there is a significant removal of stock, done evenly on all four sides and of course the transition is a smooth constant from thinner to thicker.

Like Gus Trim had said to me once, some months ago, once you touch a sword and do something successful to the sword, it gets in your blood. I think I am starting to feel that sensation!

I kind of wish Albion and Arms & Armor were south instead of north (my wife loves gardening and wants a longer growing season), because push come to shove if the pay was sufficient enough to make such employment feasable, hey I'd Love to work for Albion or Arms & Armor
Either one, they are both "First Class" in MY Book!

Sincerely,

Bob

A Huge Thanks to everyone so far!

[Bob Burns]

Hi Dan, and Thanks once again!

You mentioned that the cylinders on a stationary belt sander have their uses, I "have" suspected as such but I need some specific ideas as to what purposes they would serve in particular. If you would be so kind as to list a few of these, I would be most grateful.
Also, if any of the industry professionals along these lines of swordsmithing could quote me some directives to follow.

Thanks Much in Advance, I Appreciate any and all criticisms and instructions!

"For he who learns from himself, has a Fool for a teacher!"

I am not sensitive or emotional in these regards, also, I avoid all practices of 'Assuming" Anything!
That means I do not make assumptions of instructions, never do I make assumptions of others, positive or especially negative. I stay away from assumptions like the Plague! I make assumptions about as much as I give any serious attention to gossip. NONE

Most Sincerely!

Bob


PS: Companies seeking to recruit me, first year salary demand is $48,000.00 (Intentionally keeping the first year at a
low price to show earnest desire!). Plus 3 weeks paid vacation, 10 sick days. I also require fully paid relocation fees.
Personal workspace, shop mentor of my choice and one assistant with 1 year experience. Legal contract of my employment for 10 years. After 4th year 15 % raise each year over and above cost of living raise.

2nd thru 3rd year salary demand is $66,000.00 Plus 3 weeks paid vacation, 10 sick days. No longer need shop mentor, I will have learned everything by this time. Require 2 assistants, 1 with 1 year experience, other assistant with no less than 5 years experience, so as to keep up with me.

4th year salary demand is $105,000.00 Plus 3 weeks paid vacation. No longer require assistants, shop is to run according to my directives.


OK, when recovered from falling out of chairs laughing and wiped tears from cheeks! To all of you swordsmiths, grinders, business owners, etc. I have absolutely the highest respect for your skills and I got a lot of enjoyment at my little attempt at just a fraction of what all of you do professionally and with great skill! It blows me away what your capable of doing, personally I don't think there is any trade more complex and intricate than what it takes to make the swords that each of you so expertly produce

I was just having a self lampoon session for the benefit of entertainment of all my fellow myArmoury Members!

In summary what I said in my "PS" through the use of humor is that the creation or production of a sword is in my opinion perhaps the most complex, intricate guilds in the history of mankind, so demanding a profound skill that only the naturally gifted could hope to succeed as true swordsmiths of swords made with highly involved geometry required to achieve the physics that are a necessity to produce the many diverse types of swords, each of which is to behave in execution in a very particular way. Thus a sword is far and away much more difficult than what is involved in producing a knife, in fact so much more complex that it's an entirely different field so much so that only the most brilliant and gifted have what it takes to be a swordsmith!
Also, what I was saying is that only an arrogant moron would think he could accomplish himself as a swordsmith in a short order of time, while considering this to be a rather simple feat to accomplish.
Even with all the modern tools, steels, assistance of computers and their graphics, this is still a profession that is no less demanding in it's complexities than it was in the medieval world.
That although I achieved a well done grinding process and executed it well, I do not know "Diddly" about making a sword nor do I remotely possess the skills to take a billet of steel and create a "Sword"!
Oh I might be able to take my Cold Steel blade with it's broken tang or my Hanwei Lowlander blade with it's broken rat tail tang and make a sword, but the blade of the sword is already made, so in fact I would "Not" be making a sword, I would just be reconstructing an existing sword.

Exactly like the following illustration "pardon the pun" Just because I could do a Paint by Numbers Painting, does not make me an artist like my 1st cousin and myArmoury Member James "Jim" Conahan. For reference, see the Thread titled "Painting of Bob Burns", and you will see a masterful watercolor of me by an artist who has had a number of paintings go on international museum tours and won many awards! Yet he is a very humble man, and he was also an
All Star high school football player, captain of the defense of his small high school team the year they won the city and state championship, that being Detroit and Michigan. Because of his knees he could not answer to his football scholarships and therefore missed a sure fire opportunity to play in the NFL! Yes Jim is my cousin and my favorite blood relative but I exaggerate "Nothing"

I just wanted to explain all this in a manner so as to entertain my fellow lovers of the sword with some laughs and in the humor stating that I have no hallucinations causing me to think I could make a sword. All I did was very carefully follow the guidelines of an existing substrate that was it's own template

This was a very long post I know, I thank all of you who took the time to read it, in fact I am Honored! Because, I did have a lot I needed and wanted to say. Things I thought to be important.

I will now make an effort to shorten my postings. Thank you for your "Knightly" patience!

We the few, the lucky few, to belong to myArmoury . com

In Humility and Great Respect for Swordsmiths and Grinders Everywhere, I Salute You

Bob

[Craig Johnson]

Mornin all

Just a side note I wold also be avialable to work for anyone offering Bob's compensation package

Best
Craig

[Bob Burns]

Hi Craig, I guess Chris won't be calling me as an acquisition for his shop?

HAHAHAHA

Sir Robert Burns II

"The Knight of Madness"

[Justin King]

Looks good, Bob, I can't see any wobbles or unevenness in the pictures.
The wheels on the sander can be used for contour grinding when working odd-shaped pieces, they have other uses such as removing scale but each machine and operator is different so you have to feel it out for yourself and as need arises you will find it's uses.
Grinding to the edge of a fuller vs. grinding to a central spine are actually similar. You need to establish the bevel angle and grind until the edges are an even thickness, and you should be very near the center of the blade with the spine. Minor bevel-angle adjustments are sometimes necessary to get it exactly centered and straight but if everything else is right and done in the right order it can't be far off.
The difficulty for me comes when the bevel narrows to 3/8" or less, there is less feel of the flat meeting the belt so it is much easier to lose your angle. Hours and hours (years?) of practice eventually give you a feel for angles in your wrist so you don't have to rely completely on feeling the bevel on the belt.
When roughing in I have also learned to vary the grit according to the size of the surface I am putting on the belt at any given time-large surfaces require very coarse grit to remove material at a reasonable rate. Grinding a sharp corner on the same belt will often wear the abrasive very quickly (or even peel it clean off on cheaper belts) so I use finer belts for tiny surfaces, sharp, coarse belts for large surfaces, especially if heat is an issue. Unless your grinder is fairly powerful you should use just enough pressure to get positive feedback from the flat meeting the belt, this extends abrasive life and imparts the least amount of heat to the blade.
If you use the sander for woodworking also remeber to clean the wood dust from all the little crevices including the frame under the belt and any hollow cavities in the wheels. The flaming grinder trick is dramatic and exciting but also expensive and if your wife sees it she will FREAK OUT!

[Bob Burns]

I want to Thank "You" very much Justin for taking the time to elaborate on the finer points in the use of the cylinder aspect of the stationary belt sander and especially the various warnings on each of the different applications that you described. In fact I am going to make a note of this post you wrote, so as to make sure that your time and efforts are not lost to carelessness on my part!
Oh, and of course thanks for taking the time to scrutinize the photographs with your expertise and following up with compliments that truly mean a lot to me and help with my confidence but not arrogance.

How Very Thoughtful of you Justin!

Bob

[Dan Dickinson]

Thanks Justin, you beat me to most of the punch!
Bob, personally I find that using the cylinders/contact wheels gives me more control, especially on lenticular blades (I use the flat surface/platten more on diamond section). In fact I roughed in almost an entire blade the other weekend using only the wheel, but as justin said it can be much a matter of personal preference which you use (the platten seemed to work well for you).
To see a good video of a better grinderman than I using the contact wheels, watch this video of Albion's process. (especially about halfway through)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTg0Oc0mQy4
Hope this helps,
Dan

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Gary A. Chelette]

Bob,
Ya know I also use to give photography lessons as well.
Not bad on the grinding/sanding part. Looks natural. Of course that's what I said about my brother when he was passed out drunk.

[Gary A. Chelette]

[Bob Burns]

Wow, Gary, Dan and Jean, thanks so much for all the kind words and praise! I took the sword to the next level tonight and starting with the coarse side, then the smooth side, I flat filed the four sides going from the ridge of the fuller to the cutting edge and therefore took off quite a bit more steel, this process came out beautiful. I have a very good file which I bought at a high end tool store here in Chicagoland "Berlands House of Tools", it's 1 inch wide by 14 inches long, anyway I flat filed the cutting sides from the tip of the blade to about 3 inches from the crossguard and the result is even more life than I had put into it from the grinding.
I had seen Paul Champaigne a swordsmith who starts from iron ore on the History Channel, but in fact I also have that video at the end of one of my Barbarians II DVD.
The original thickness of the blade was 1/4 inch all the way down the length of the sword, it is now 1/4 inch at the crossguard and it gradually thins down to just a hair less than 1/8 of an inch or a heavy 3/32 of an inch.

Then I took a coarse oil stone to the four flats and follow up with a medium stone to take out the file marks, now I will be going to the sandpaper on sanding block process from 220 grit up to 800 grit. I've really got this blade profile where I want it now. I sure wish I lived close to Albion Swords or Arms & Armor, perhaps work for them part time so as to learn more, unless they want to meet my salary demands?
I will try to keep my posts more brief now, once I get rolling on the keyboard I can really start to babble sometimes!
Next, I am going to do something with these two blades with broken tangs, the Hanwei Lowlander and the Cold Steel
Grosse Messer.

Thank You!!!!!

Bob

[Bob Burns]

Yesterday I finished off the grinding process by using a very good professional flat file that is 14" by 1", one side having a coarse face and the other a fine. By flat filing all four sides which took off a bit more steel, I wound up with a beautiful smooth surface on all four sides, which worked out like a fine tuning process to the grinding and enhanced the work already done.
Now I am at the emery cloth and sandpaper stage in getting nice finished look. Also, since I did remove more steel in the flat filing process there is even more life to the sword now and really thrilled with how it's turned out. The flat filing took out any and all of those high or low spots that cannot be seen with the naked eye, which was accomplished by keeping the file true to the template substrate of the sword edges on all four sides.
I have the thick to thin profile on this blade now to where it is a magnificent cutter, it's quite sharp now but with the new profile of this sword it could be easily honed to where it would be dreadfully sharp and still a very powerful Viking Sword with no loss to the strength of the blade.

I gotta say I really enjoyed transforming this sword to where it is now!

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Bob Burns]

Hi Jean, Your words are very kind and I know that you are also serious and I am receptive to what you are saying, right now it all seems like a dream, I had no idea that my sword was going to turn out so well and my immediate frustration,( now this is funny as can be ) that Albion or Arms & Armor is not geographically close to me! Even better yet,
"Why isn't Peter Johnsson my next door neighbor?" WAAAAAA
I also have a DeWalt double 8" wheel grinder, which I kind of bought for the heck of it about a year ago, being that I used to be a "Tool Nut", but that was sidelined a couple of years before I became a "Sword Nut".
This is actually a very good idea that you have come up with for me Jean, it seems I have some sort of natural talent at a feel for things so to speak. I was talking to my wife about it this evening, part of the conversation was about how when I bought this 7 foot (including fall and cracker) mini bullwhip from my friend Joe Wheeler and it was no time before I was routinely putting candles out. Then I mentioned how many years ago I had applied for a job that I turned down but it was driving a fork lift and my depth perception visual test scored so high that I was tested a second time with the same results.
I am just trying to understand what is going on that I was able to do so well with grinding this sword, and I was also wondering if I have some sort of similarity with my cousin Jim the artist, although I am No artist, but that perhaps whatever it is, comes out in a different way with me. Right now I am just tryng to make some sense out of it all, because this was the first time I ever ground anything, hell, I'd never even ground a knife before!
Then Whammo, I grind out this Del Tin, take it from a 1/4 inch thickness the length of the blade and get a perfect transition from 1/4 inch to 7/64 at the distal end and I'd never done this before!
Quite frankly, I am a bit bamboozled! It would be a pipe dream for me to find myself earning a living at some point in time down the road involved in the very thing that has made me happier than any other interest in my lifetime!
Well, I do want to make new swords out of those two former swords where the tang snapped in half, the Cold Steel
Grosse Messer and the Hanwei Lowlander.
Primarily I gotta figure out what to use to cut new tangs with, I don't know, can I use a Rotozip to do that? I have the better Rotozip, but is that the right tool? I mean, this is tempered steel so what do you cut tempered steel with? LOL!
The votes of confidence to make a couple of rondel daggers and now this idea, hey I am seriously very flattered but I am also taking these compliments very seriously too!
I have to admit, I am ambitious to show my Del Tin that I just finished up to other people who know swords!

This is a wonderful thing to learn about myself, it still seems like a dream and yet I am a bit excited!

Thanks Very Much Jean, Dan and everyone else!

Bob