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JE Sarge
Industry Professional
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 Posted: Sun 03 Jul, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian S LaSpina wrote: | | JE Sarge wrote: | I point though maille all the time with no problem. Most of the time, I just leave the points tied in and remove the plate component. That way, It's easier to put the pieces on yourself later. Or sometimes, in the case of some smaller pieces (elbow cops, spaulders, besegues, etc), I can point them on BEFORE I put on the hauberk and tighten them after I shimmy into it. Never had an issue with it myself.  |
Are we talking about the same thing? Are you leaving your gambeson inside your maille at all times and you wriggle in to both garments together? It would be impossible for me to get into my gambeson while it's buttoned inside a haubergeon. We're talking about points attached to the gambeson, being pulled through maille, and thence to the plate. It sounds like you're talking about pointing directly TO the maille. I'm just trying to clear up potential confusion. |
That would be correct, I point drectly to my mail, then cinch everything tight. This works fine for me, because I am using very limited plate components indicative of very early usage. In pointing the gambeson through the maille to the plate component, I've simply used a small piece of wire coathanger with an L bent in the end to fish the point through. Not ever been a problem for me in either case - best of luck working out a solution for yourself.
I have also owned Ringmesh. It's very, very light and has super fine stainless rings. It would stop a slashing injury from something like a knife, but I don't think it would hold up well to a sword impact. Additionally, it's too fine to look like real maille, from a distance, it looks like metallic cloth. It's good for events like Ren Faires and such - but, I'd never fight against a sword wearing it. It's just not substantial enough IMHO. And, it would be a bitch to point though because the rings are super tiny.
J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com
"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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David Teague
Location: Anchorage, Alaska Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Sun 03 Jul, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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I point my arm harness and spaulders to my tailored maille haubergeon.
I point my legs to my custom arming coat.
This system works fine for me.
This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.
Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild
"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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Adam D
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| Posted: Sun 03 Jul, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Well I will pass on the Ringmesh then. What about any of the other options?
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Adam D
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| Posted: Sun 03 Jul, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| David Teague wrote: | I point my arm harness and spaulders to my tailored maille haubergeon.
I point my legs to my custom arming coat.
This system works fine for me.
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Where did you get that helm? That is my favorite style. Your harness looks like what I plan to have when I get done putting everything together.
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Ian S LaSpina
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| Posted: Mon 04 Jul, 2011 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Pointing directly to my maille for my arm harness always seemed to result in a little too much shifting for me, and it just seemed to make my haubergeon heavier, eliminating the advantage of the arming garment distributing weight properly for me.
I took a strip of old butted maille I made and adjusted it a bit to illustrate the solution I was trying to describe that I saw in a shot of some reenactors in a portion of Reclaiming the Blade. I don't know if this has historical precedent, but it seems to me a very practical solution that works quite well for those who want to point through the maille to the arming garment beneath.
I removed a few rings from a single row of this strip and you can see it quite easily pulls open just enough to uncover your point below and really facilitates pulling it through. I think this method has 2 advantages. Firstly, it makes it very easy to pull the point through, and won't require tools to assist. Secondly, I believe it would reduce the wear and chafing on the points that would result if pulled through the center of a single ring. All you would need to do is locate the area on your maille above your points, mark them, remove a few rings, and life just became easier.
If anyone knows whether this method is historically plausible or not, please shed some light.
-Ian
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My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest
"Monsters are dangerous, and just now Kings are dying like flies..."
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Johan Gemvik
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| Posted: Mon 04 Jul, 2011 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Ian S LaSpina wrote: |
If anyone knows whether this method is historically plausible or not, please shed some light.
-Ian |
I don't see a reason this would be implausible.
I suspect you could get the same result with a tight fitting well tailored maille without making holes or getting much shifting by just sticking the strings through the weave and then the pourpond under it. With a loose maille that isn't tailored tight to the wearer though your method seems more than reasonabe. I expect the plate piece fitted on will cover the hole in the maille after all, not leaving a gap in the armour. Of course, if a maille has these holes, you could also insert a piece of plate in the weave with waterver hole size you'd need, or perhaps simpler still a much larger ring link and it'll still hang perfectly around it.
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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David Teague
Location: Anchorage, Alaska Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Mon 04 Jul, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Adam D wrote: | | David Teague wrote: |  |
Where did you get that helm? That is my favorite style. Your harness looks like what I plan to have when I get done putting everything together. |
I was one of the first to buy from Steel Mastery when they started to sell to the US:
They were fast, friendly, had great communication and a very nice price point, and I became one of their biggest cheerleaders on the internet... until they started having issues and "doinking" people I had sent their way (both friends and people who trusted my opinions in the net).
They seemed to fall into the trap of taking to many orders with their new found success and not giving folks a realistic time frame. They were still quoting 6 weeks on helms when I had friends that were still waiting 12 months or more for the same items. The great communication went out the window during this same time.
I know they did clean up their queue in time and got better with communication but I'm not sure where they stand now with orders.
If you are interested in their product line I would do a internet search/ ask the question at the other armour related forums to see how they are doing now with folks orders before placing funds on an item.
In closing I will say, I love my helm. Not quite right historically, but much better than the Indian made ones that folks wear.
Cheers,
David
This you shall know, that all things have length and measure.
Free Scholar/ Instructor Selohaar Fechtschule
The Historic Recrudescence Guild
"Yea though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou's sword art is with me; Thy poleaxe and Thy quarterstaff they comfort me."
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Mon 04 Jul, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Quarantillo wrote: | So how about the GDFB Ulthbert maille?
The wedge-riveted/solid flat ring stuff.
I know you have some experience with the brand Mr Sander |
Nope. My riveted maille coif comes from Cap-a-pie in the UK, not from GDFB. It hasn't damaged my gambeson at all. Two side remarks about that are (1) I haven't had my coif for very long and (2) a coif weighs less and causes less friction than a full hauberk, so YMMV.
Visually the cap-a-pie maille looks very similar to the slightly more expensive GDFB maille. But I haven't handles the latter myself so I can't really say. I think the GDFB maille will be fine though. I once handled a really cheap riveted hauberk that did have sharp edges. It was of substantial lower quality (and price) than my Cap-a-pie maille. It consisted of round rings, not flat rings. The overlap was pressed so flat that the edges of the overlap were quite sharp.
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 04 Jul, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Another historical way to do it would be to do voiders and gussets; physically stitching the maille onto your gambeson in the vunerable and exposed areas. This way, you could decrease weight and increase flexibility. A bit out of period, but it could be made to look in period with a little effort and enough maille for proper coverage.
Below is an example, which as I've said is from a later period in which you are doing, however, since you could tailor them to your own liking, you could essentially leave all your points exposed, take off the excess maille under your plate components, and dress all your visible areas with maille. I have seen this done to where from the exterior the wearer looks as if he is wearing full maille hauberk, when in actuality, he is wearing considerably less. In one case, about 15lbs less...
J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com
"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Nathan Quarantillo
Location: Eastern Panhandle WV, USA Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Mon 04 Jul, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't you handle a sample for a thread a while back?
In addition to being too late, I would be using the maille to cover a number of periods, which would make it the primary body armour for some kits.
"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Mon 04 Jul, 2011 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Quarantillo wrote: | | Didn't you handle a sample for a thread a while back? |
Wow, you have good memory. I wrote this post well over a year ago. I went out to test some Ulfberth mail for sharpness (different from GDFB maille). I found some decent maille but I wasn't sure it really was Ulfberth (the store owner declined to tell me). Also, I can't compare it with my current Cap-a-pie maiile. I'd have to compare two pieces side-by-side, not with a 15 month gap in between
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Nathan Quarantillo
Location: Eastern Panhandle WV, USA Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Tue 05 Jul, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Haha, yep. That's the one.
Sorry, I didn't know the owner wouldn't tell you. But I think I remember that GDFB gets a lot of their stuff from Ulfberth. So i very well may be.
"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Tue 05 Jul, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Quarantillo wrote: | Haha, yep. That's the one.
Sorry, I didn't know the owner wouldn't tell you. But I think I remember that GDFB gets a lot of their stuff from Ulfberth. So i very well may be. |
Not quite. There are two companies called GDFB. One is a manufacturer. You can get their stuff through e.g. Kult of Athena and Cas Hanwei. It's usually called "GDFB Global". The other GDFB is an online store usually called by the full name "Get Dressed For Battle". Their main supplier is Ulfberth. The two GDFB's used to be one company but they split up somewhere in the past. The store I visited to check out the mail sells both GDFB manufactured wares as Ulfberth manufactured wares (along side many other manufacturers). So, I really have no idea what I had in my hands.
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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William Frisbee
Location: South Shore, MA Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue 05 Jul, 2011 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Quarantillo wrote: | So how about the GDFB Ulthbert maille?
The wedge-riveted/solid flat ring stuff.
I know you have some experience with the brand Mr Sander |
This is what I use. I love it.
As for cutting my points? I've been wearing the same points under my kit for about a year now, and only one (my left arm) is showing any signs of wear.
I have a bunch of new points from Historic Enterprises, but never had a need to use them yet.
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This is a standard topic