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Anders Backlund
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 Posted: Mon 21 Jan, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: | | Ok, for the bad guy, what do you think about this Guy? |
Now, that would be too cruel. My poor heroes wouldn't stand a chance! 
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.
"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Mon 21 Jan, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Anders Backlund wrote: | | One thing I find myself lacking is proper bad guys. Does anyone here know of any particularly nasty tribe or people the vikings might have fought at some point? |
Well, they were afraid of us Finns (and Lapps, Tsjuds, etc). We're all half-human man-eating sorcerors you know. 
| Quote: | Yeah, but that's sort of my point. It doesn't matter what they got wrong, or why. They still got it wrong!
And honestly, we're not talking about some minor inaccuracies here, but the entire production design. And we shouldn't have to settle for that just because they happened to get the script right. |
Everyone always gets something wrong. Everyone. And I do mean that quite literally. (This goes double - or five-hundred-fold, rather - in such a massive group effort as a commercial feature film.)
Make no mistake: you will not get everything right, either, no matter how much and how diligent background research you do. You will make mistakes. And looking back, some of them will be glaringly obvious, and painfully, excrutiatingly embarrassing. And it's not because of any personal flaw, laziness or incompetence: it's merely inevitable. All you can do is to learn to live with it, strive to do better next time, and be good enough that your audience is willing to forgive your shortcomings for the sake of your strong points. (And of course, being slightly - but just slightly - smarter and better informed than your audience never hurts, either. )
| Quote: | | But, well, it's all the little things, you know? Like how King Hrothgar (Sven Wolter. yay!) held court in a run-down hall in what seemed to be the middle of a forest. What about agriculture? What about sea accessibility? |
Actually, as far as I can tell from watching the film, Hrothgar's mead hall is in the middle of the half-abandoned village, surrounded by extensive cultivated fields, situated in a gently sloping valley running down to the sea, which in turn is encircled by the high hills on one side and the deep forest on the other; at one end of the chain of hills are the Thunder Cliffs, and beyond them the open sea, with an accessible shore somewhere close by (after all, Buliwyf and his men swam there from below the Thunder Cliffs, and they were already tired from fighting and running when they hit the water), most probably at the mouth of the river running the length of the valley. From that shore to the village along the river is less than an afternoon's walking distance, maybe an hour or two at most. Buliwyf didn't come to that shore originally because they were in a hurry and coming from the other direction, across the land from the East, and there's no telling how long the trip around the landmass would have taken.
Or at least, that's what I got out of it.
| Quote: | Considering that what I'm planning is a graphic novel (otherwise known as a "comic book") that shouldn't be much of a problem.
My current aim on the design front is "highly stylized, yet based on historical examples." |
You know, that could quite aptly describe Frank Miller's 300, as well... 
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Anders Backlund
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| Posted: Mon 21 Jan, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikko Kuusirati wrote: |
Well, they were afraid of us Finns (and Lapps, Tsjuds, etc). We're all half-human man-eating sorcerors you know. |
True, I might make something of that...
You didn't quite have that "sweep across the land, burning everything in your path" mentality, though.
| Quote: | Everyone always gets something wrong. Everyone. And I do mean that quite literally. (This goes double - or five-hundred-fold, rather - in such a massive group effort as a commercial feature film.)
Make no mistake: you will not get everything right, either, no matter how much and how diligent background research you do. You will make mistakes. And looking back, some of them will be glaringly obvious, and painfully, excrutiatingly embarrassing. And it's not because of any personal flaw, laziness or incompetence: it's merely inevitable. All you can do is to learn to live with it, strive to do better next time, and be good enough that your audience is willing to forgive your shortcomings for the sake of your strong points. (And of course, being slightly - but just slightly - smarter and better informed than your audience never hurts, either. ) |
Well, I kinda disagree here. First of all, I firmly believe it is indeed possible to create something without looking back at it with regret. Even if one never stops growing, one can still be satisfied with past accomplishments.
Secondly, there's a big difference between something that is "not perfect" and something that is genuinely flawed. It's not about achieving perfection, it's about living up to a certain standard. I just don't feel The 13th Warrior did so, that's all. Mileage may vary.
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Actually, as far as I can tell from watching the film, Hrothgar's mead hall is in the middle of the half-abandoned village, surrounded by extensive cultivated fields, situated in a gently sloping valley running down to the sea, which in turn is encircled by the high hills on one side and the deep forest on the other; at one end of the chain of hills are the Thunder Cliffs, and beyond them the open sea, with an accessible shore somewhere close by (after all, Buliwyf and his men swam there from below the Thunder Cliffs, and they were already tired from fighting and running when they hit the water), most probably at the mouth of the river running the length of the valley. From that shore to the village along the river is less than an afternoon's walking distance, maybe an hour or two at most. Buliwyf didn't come to that shore originally because they were in a hurry and coming from the other direction, across the land from the East, and there's no telling how long the trip around the landmass would have taken.
Or at least, that's what I got out of it. |
Hm, you don't say? Well, you may be right; I honestly don't trust my memory these days. I'll have to rewatch it, because all I recall is a lot of trees.
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You know, that could quite aptly describe Frank Miller's 300, as well... |
Well, I did rather like 300. (The movie. anyway. I have yet to get my hands on the comic.) It was, of course, wildly inaccurate and completely silly most of the time, but you sort of got the feeling it was meant to be inaccurate and silly; that you weren't supposed to take it very seriously, 
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.
"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 21 Jan, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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I mostly enjoyer the 13th Warrior, or at least the beginning seemed promising but past the mid-point it seemed to get less and less believable: The cultural shock early in the film and the personalities worked for me. The armour mishmash of styles was a bit jarring after watching the film and actually thinking about it: I usually try to suspend critical thought as I watch a film and give a film's story a chance to draw me in. A lot depends on the internal consistency of the premises of the story: With a fantasy involving magic, super-heroes or impossible martial arts skills one suspends disbelief and one just sits there and enjoys the movie. ( If it's good ).
With the 13th Warrior the film seemed to change from a realistic historical epic, to a supernatural fantasy and back to just crazy cult of cannibals !? I know that this film was based on a book and I wonder if it followed the book closely and if the book had the same change of styles ?
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Alexander Upton
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| Posted: Tue 22 Jan, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: |
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If you are looking for a real person then i suggest following the life of Harald Hardråde. He may be a bit later than you want but his journey is amazing. He travelled accross europe and russia even spending some time in Byzantium as part of the Varangrian guard. he was crowned King of Norway and spent some time fighting the Swedish. He is probably best known for his part in the Battle of Stamford Bridge against Harold Godwinson in 1066.
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Rodolfo Martínez
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| Posted: Tue 22 Jan, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Mikko:
Do you know if it was in the ancient Finnish religion, or any other germanic one, in wich if a warrior died, his soul turned into an animal?
Because, if it is true Anders, maybe you can do something with something like this:
¨There was a viking warrior X, who fought against a very evil foreign guy Y, in a battle, and the viking X killed the other guy Y, but the bad guy Y promised revenge, and his soul is transformed into a dragon/Chimera/ monster, who starts killing vikings or something like that, or, if they travel to Hel, they have to fight against the evil guy´s soul (Transformed into dragon)¨
Or something like this...
Anders, Do you draw?
¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Anders Backlund
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| Posted: Wed 23 Jan, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | I mostly enjoyer the 13th Warrior, or at least the beginning seemed promising but past the mid-point it seemed to get less and less believable: The cultural shock early in the film and the personalities worked for me. The armour mishmash of styles was a bit jarring after watching the film and actually thinking about it: I usually try to suspend critical thought as I watch a film and give a film's story a chance to draw me in. A lot depends on the internal consistency of the premises of the story: With a fantasy involving magic, super-heroes or impossible martial arts skills one suspends disbelief and one just sits there and enjoys the movie. ( If it's good ). |
I usually suspend disbelief towards the parts that I, as a writer, know I'm supposed to suspend my disbelief to, but I remain critical to other things. Just because my disbelief is suspended, it doesn't mean I need to accept anything.
| Quote: | | With the 13th Warrior the film seemed to change from a realistic historical epic, to a supernatural fantasy and back to just crazy cult of cannibals !? I know that this film was based on a book and I wonder if it followed the book closely and if the book had the same change of styles ? |
The book is called Eaters of the Dead and was based part on Beowulf, part on the observations of the actual, historical Ahmad ibn Fadlan. It was written by Michael Chrichton, same guy who wrote Jurassic Park.
Anyway, the book heavily implied that the wendol tribe was in fact a surviving population of neanderthals. I strongly suspect those were not in Fadlan's original manuscript.
| Alexander Upton wrote: | | If you are looking for a real person then i suggest following the life of Harald Hardråde. He may be a bit later than you want but his journey is amazing. He travelled accross europe and russia even spending some time in Byzantium as part of the Varangrian guard. he was crowned King of Norway and spent some time fighting the Swedish. He is probably best known for his part in the Battle of Stamford Bridge against Harold Godwinson in 1066. |
Real people are, in fact, of somewhat limited interest to me since I barely have room in my head for all the fictional characters I keep thinking of on a constant basis. But thanks for the suggestion never the less.
| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: |
Anders, Do you draw? |
A bit, yes, but my drawing is nowhere near as good as my writing.
I'm hoping to produce plenty of scetches, but the actual artwork will have to go to someone else. My brother wants to become a comic artist, and he's starting to get very skilled. So if all else fails, there's always him.
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.
"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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