[Jean Thibodeau]

Bob;

No need to act on any of these suggestions immediately, just keep them in mind as possibilities and go with your true desires when you figure out what those are. ( Glad that you liked my ideas ).

[Gary A. Chelette]

[Bob Burns]

I took the Del Tin Viking Sword for a test run a few hours ago, it's garbage night in our neighborhood and I have a neighbor two doors down who has just moved in and had a whole lot of boxes out in his garbage, big boxes, reinforced boxes, tall boxes, etc. We also got nailed with a huge amount of snow, which is why I was outside, I was shoveling, and playing with Rosie my 91 lb amazon canine athelete 5 yr old golden retriever. When I got done with the shoveling I went and got the sword and took it to the boxes, and I have not yet honed it to put that deadly edge on it yet.
Fierce monster of a Viking sword, now that it's ground and flat filed it no longer feels like a mace and instead it now feels like a sword should feel with lots of life in a robust blade. With that 33 1/4 inch blade it is a Mean Beast, I'd be interested in comparing it to the Albion Tritonia or the St. Maurice Sword just to see how it compares, very curious!
I have been thinking about what Jean had to say and with the support of Gary, Dan, and others, I am inclined to buy a
2nd Generation or another likewise beefed up heavy duty sword, grind it down to where I want it and see if I can pull this off again, 2 for 2? Thanks to Gary, I hear the voice of the Templars "God Wills It"!

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

Bob;

As long as you know when to stop so that a 33" sword doesn't turn into an 8" filleting knife.

A good idea to finish the current sword and do a " product " improvement on another sword.

With a lot of these beefy but basically well made swords the thing is to keep the spine at full thickness near the guard while adding some, but not too much distal taper, to make them lively but not thin the blades too much.

[Bob Burns]

Yes Jean, I've reached that point where any improvement would not be an improvement, it's at it's apex and will stay there. At a hair under 1/8 of an inch thickness at the distal end of the blade for this sword it's my amateur feeling that I've reached perfection.
It's a huge sword and should maintian the mechanichs of a huge sword, which I feel it's now at it's best.
Too much is a bad thing and this can come from the behavior of compulsiveness and obsession, it's knowing when to stop with a project and to leave it alone whatever that project may be.

Thanks!

Bob

[Bob Burns]

I am going to Kult of Athena Wednesday 2/6/08, that being in the morning sometime but I will check my messages before I leave in case anyone wants me to check something out for them.
Ryan (Owner of Kult of Athena) is very interested in seeing the job that I did on this Del Tin Sword, he also has the other Del Tin Viking Sword there, so he will be able to make a good comparison on just how much grinding I did to get this sword where it is at now, which is as lively as any Arms & Armor or Albion sword that I've ever wielded to be absolutely honest!
I don't know where this talent comes from, as I said, I've never even ground a knife before and at no time was I ever in a quandary or in any kind of trouble with the grinding process, never broke a sweat. I started out with a very positive attitude and focused myself to be "One with the Sword" that I was grinding, paying close attention as I went along.
I did not start off by grinding a lot off the distal end, I started by grinding a little bit more on the distal and less and less as I got to the proximal end of the blade, being careful to repeat the exact same process and same pressure and so forth on all four sides as I went along. It was several rotations of the four sides before I was done and then as I mentioned when I was satisfied that I was exactly where I wanted to be with the grinding process, then I flat filed the four sides, this removed any low or high spots not visible to the naked eye, even by looking down the length of the blade.
The sword is extremely sharp now and I had to be careful doing the finish sanding with oil on the blade, starting with a 180 grit and taking it gradually up to a 1,000 grit.
I am inviting anyone who wants to check it out further, to "Please" call or write Ryan at Kult of Athena and ask him for his scrutinizing and unbiased opinion on the job that I did on the Del Tin Sword
I would not at all be offended by this being checked out by anyone, in fact it would make me rather happy!

Well, as Gus Trim once said to me some months ago when I first spoke about doing something with my Cold Steel
Grosse Messer Sword with the snapped off tang, that it would get into my blood. He's absolutely correct, it's in my blood now and I am going to do something with that very sword next.
What I need is some advice on what to use to cut into the tempered blade with to create a new tang. I have a Bosch Jigsaw, the deluxe Rotozip "brand name", actually I have a lot of power tools. No lathe, joiner or planer though, at least not yet. LOL! But I would have to stop buying swords and medieval arms for that to happen.

Ryan's email info@kultofathena.com

Ryan's KoA Phone 1-847-531-8664

Thanks Very Much!

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Bob Burns]

Hi Jean, I most certainly will once again go over that Hanwei Chinese Qi Jian Sword for you. Reason I say, "Once Again" is because I've given that sword some thought too, it's a nice sword, the blade is a solid piece of still with the hilt!
The most spectacular Chinese sword in the store is the Hanwei Song Sword but it's big bucks, however it is folded pattern steel and man does it make the air sing when just moderately slicing the air. If you want a Jian sword, this is the way to go though! It's very solid construction but I will be sure to play around with it this morning!
Yeah, I definitely want a "round" at the tang going into the blade shoulders, otherwise it's a stress fracture just waiting to happen! Kind of like if your installing sheet vinyl and on your pre cuts if you don't do a round and make corners instead, well look out because your in for some tears and a blown job! LOL
I'll remember the Roman Aches when I make the tang on that Grosse Messer sword! Thanks Jean!

Sincerely!

Bob

I hope someone checks with Ryan on his opinon of my grinding of the Del Tin Sword!

[Bob Burns]

OK, I braved the horrendous snow storm and went to Kult of Athena bringing my Del Tin Sword along for Ryan to closely inspect. He was pretty shocked in a very good way and he readily and happily agreed to answer any inquiries anyone might have about my finished job at my very first grinding of anything! LOL
I also asked him to inspect both sides of the sword looking down both from the hilt and from the point to search for any waves or anything at all that he could find.
I also asked him to be completely honest about his opinion with anyone who contacted him and he readily agreed of course!

Oh, he gave me a sword to take home and grind for him! It's a practical type blade of the Viking type XII and the edges are the dullest you could imagine and the blade is stiff as a rail. I plan on bringing it back sharp and lively, being very cautious of the heat aspect while grinding

Sincerely!

Bob

[Gary A. Chelette]

Good luck on the work. You may have started a new industry!
Custom rework of swords.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Chris Arrington]

Bob,

Instead of playing with "modifying" swords with poor handling or SLO's (sword like objects, or wallhangers) why not just purchase some bar stock and make your own from scratch.

A little more work, but 5160 barstock is fairly reasonable and easy to purchase over the internet. And you have much more control over your designs. You seem to have the basics for stock removal down pat (speaking as a non professional )

A little work, a little creativity, send it out for heat treatment and .... VOILA !

I've been wanting to do this myself, so maybe thats where this suggestion is coming from. But until my son gets a little older and more self sufficent, my free time is in short supply.

Nice work !

[Bob Burns]

I was tired and not thinking and have since made the correction on the previous post, this is not a Type X it's a
Type XII, the fuller ends 5 and 7/8 from the tip of the blade. LOL
Overall length is 34 and 1/2" not including pommel nut, blade is 28 and 5/8 heavy or 11/32, width at hilt is 2 inches and goes down to 1 and 1/8" before terminating into the point, fuller is 1/2 " descending to 3/8" wide.

I really appreciate all the votes of confidence and ideas, I am still in the "bamboozled" stage and I hope to be in the
"believer" stage this weekend, when I commence to grinding this long flat "war club" into a sword! I have not done anything with it yet, but it looks to me like I can field strip this sword as the grip is also solid brass as are the pommel and crossguard, secured apparently only by a pommel nut. The design is a star like with line protrusions coming off the four nautical quadrants known as E, W, N and S, with a dot 3/32 in diameter at the center. I will produce pictures ASAP. Otherwise I would have a problem with the proximal aspect of the blade adjacent to the crossguard.
The blade is so thick that I actually also bought a 50 grit belt and will test run it on the blade to remove excess stock, if it's to coarse I will know instantly and will switch to the 80 grit and finish with the 120 grit before taking it to the filing, sanding and finishing stages.
I also brightened up and cleaned the pommel and crossguard of the Del Tin with WD 40 oil, which Ryan noticed right away how much brighter and cleaner the hilt was, though I've got to put a black leather grip on it because the imitation
sinew that it came with is tattering. I've got the leather, just have to get the contact cement, going to glue and wrap then cut down the side of the grip.
I can't express how good all the encouragement makes me feel and I am looking forward with open minded curiousity as to where this takes me! Sure would be nice to be neighbors with one of the swordsmiths though! LOL!
However, this way it's a challenge and that means I have to think things through, read and study, take my time and get it right while allowing for the fact that I am human. I have a tendency to take myself too seriously sometimes and become overly critical but the first sword went so well all along the process that I've already got a certain amount of confidence.

Much, Much Thanks!

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

As suggested at some point you may want to go to bar stock and we will have a new swordmaker out there.
But then you also have to find a good place to heat treat your work or be able to do it yourself as well as make the furniture.

But even then I think these "improvement " project are useful as a lot of basically sound swords are in serious need of fine tuning and the time needed to modify is much less than doing it all from scratch.

Now one could argue that the original makers could do this themselves in the first place, but they wouldn't be inexpensive swords then, and these makers may not have the skilled workers needed to do the work or if they do, they don't have the knowledge base to know that they are making " obese " swords.

Also their target market probably prefers the lower prices because they are not aware how a good sword should feel like.

So, for some of us who buy one of these " fat boys " there would be someone out there who could make a " soso " sword into a good sword at an affordable extra cost but still cheaper than buying a higher end sword: In other words " I really like this sword but why WHY did they have to make it so heavy " would have a cure to their frustration.

[Bob Burns]

You raise some really good points Jean, especially I am thinking of these "fat boy swords", of which there's been a few that I've picked up and immediately knew the sword did not feel at all like it looked hanging on the wall, while there are others that instinctively I can look at and perceive accurately to be "long flat warclubs" .
One very important question that comes to my mind is, which if any of these swords is a "fat boy" because the manufacturer does not know anything about hardness or tempering or cannot find someone reliable in his desired price range to keep the cost of the sword down. So the maker compensates by making the blade more into a bludgeon than into a functional weight sword.
Another thing I can also look into I was thinking, is to take other swords like the one I was just given to work on and that is to take practical swords and turn them into actual swords so to speak.
Right now, it's all a learning process, the basic discovery is that seemingly I have a natural talent to grind out a good sword without ever having attempted it before. What lies ahead is the need to learn more about what I am doing, the best ways to do a certain application that is most efficient and accurate means to obtain that goal I am striving for, such as to grind a fuller into a flat diamond cross section. It's obviously going to need the assistance of a jig or template to keep the blade steady so as to get a perfectly straight fuller ground in, otherwise it's going to look like a twisting country road.
As a matter of fact I am thinking on making the existing fuller on this practical type XII a bit deeper and wider both as an experiment and to achieve the end which I want ot meet, that being to remove the excess weight.
Rather than to just grinding the four sides of the blade, because to me the fuller does seem too shallow, however I might have to make do for now, since I don't at present have the right tool to grind a fuller.
What I am thinking of attempting is to put a bit of a hollow grind into the blade and see how that goes, starting off with a slight grind by using the cylinder end of my bench sander.
I will know more tonight and tomorrow when I take the sword to the grinder and feel my way along.

Thanks Much!

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Bob Burns]

Yes Jean, you are absolutely correct and I have indeed aborted the idea of attempting any hollow grinding on this sword, in fact I started on it last night. Also, instead of just using the flat surface of the bench sander, I am almost exclusively using the cylinder, which provides for making a lot more headway in removing all this extra steel from the blade.
Not only am I using the cylinder but I am also going at it much more aggressiviely and all is going smooth and to my liking, no problems incured as of yet. It's kind of like the principle of spray painting, whether using a spray can or a professional paint gun, which I have used to put a finish on wood back in my cabinet making days. You cannot just start at the beginning or end of a grind, especially not somewhere in the middle of your path up and down the grinding cyiinder, unless you like ditches in your blade!
I've removed a lot of stock with the 50 grit but I have a ways to go before I change the belt to an 80 grit and then on to the 120 grit, prior to sanding and finishing the blade.
This is becoming a Lot of Fun! I am really enjoying myself, but I just cannot understand why it all comes to me so naturally!
When I brought the Del Tin back to Kult of Athena to show Ryan what I had done with the sword, (which is now finished), the expression on Ryan's face when I took it out of the scabbard was absolutely "priceless"! LOL

I know one thing for sure though. I am Ever So Grateful To the point of being humbled.

Any and All suggestions or corrections of what I am doing are most encouraged!

As are emails or phone calls to Ryan.

Email info@kultofathena.com

Phone 1-847-531-8664

In discussing contacts to Ryan with Ryan, he very much welcomes them.

Oh, and this is very important to me!! I am not encouraging such contact to boast! Rather, to reinforce my absolute honesty by substantiation! Even more importantly, to provide an independant opinion!
Such is my sole purpose in welcoming inquiries!
As I have Much to Learn!

Will provide links to photos ASAP.

[Bob Burns]

I finished the grinding and the long flat war club is now a sword! No problems happened with this one either, though the blade is not finished, it is done as far as the grinding process goes and I went through all three belts, those being a 50, 80 and 120 grit. Took a lot of stock off of this blade and it's weight has been largely reduced although the blade is still pretty stiff though it does have more life than it did prior tot he grinding. The stiffness which I am thinking is the steel and the way it was tempered and I don't want to remove any more stock, it's where I want it to be. In part I have to deal with the very shallow fuller that the maker put into the blade, which was not at all deep enough in my rookie opinion.
I will bring the balde back to Ryan on either Thursday or Saturday afternoon for him to check out and once again to provide an unbiased source who has a lot of knowledge about swords, for anyone who would like to inquire with as to his honest opinion.
I decided to change the flat diamond cross section that ran from the termination of the fuller to the point of the blade into a slight convex profile for what I think would be a better cutting design. Also, I did not like the flat diamond cross section on this particular sword.
Next step, commence to hand sanding and finishing the blade.
I have to admit, I am enjoying this very much!

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Bob Burns]

Thanks Jean, I really appreciate all your encouragement! This sword was a lot more grinding, it was made (to my understanding) by a small new upstart sword company in India and it was obviously intended for reenactors I would think.
I mean the edge was 3/32! However it IS Sharp Now! Also as I mentioned it's a whole lot lighter too, lot's of grinding and I did the most of the grinding via the cylinder, wow that did speed up the process quite a bit and I did not run into any problems at all doing this!
I don't know why or how, but humbly speaking, it does seem to come naturally to me for some reason, for which I am ever so grateful! There's plenty of things I am not good at and others that I am fair and some that I am good at doing, like everyone else.
To find myself in a gainful business along the lines of our common interest, would be a Pipe Dream Come True!

It just does not get any better than that!

A Big Thanks!

Bob