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Lin Robinson
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 Posted: Tue 12 Feb, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Martin wrote: |
Hello Gordon,
I have Goex in 2 & 3f, and I also have some old Curtis & Harvey (Made In Great Britain) 1fg Sporting Black Powder. Crazy as it may sound, that old C&H 1fg burns at least as clean if not a shade cleaner then the Goex 2fg... I think the C&H will be my choice for the test,,, yes,,, even in a .45 Dickert Flintlock. I'll prime with 3fg Goex, though I do have 4fg Goex, I like the 3fg for prime. That's how it stands as of today. Something could change to change my mind?
As a side note,,, someday I plan on owning a matchlock! I hope!!!  |
Back around 1971 or 72, Dupont shut down its powder mill which created a major shortage of black powder in the US. Hard to believe, but the price of a pound of BP shot up to almost $10! Any way, when GOEX bought and reopened the Dupont facility everything got back to normal.
During that time I bought a pound of C & H Black Diamond powder. It was great. Seemed to burn a little cleaner and velocities were more consistent. The stuff was made, and I think still is made, in Scotland. I was living in Montana at the time and was about to return to North Carolina so I gave away my powder stores before I left, not wanting to transport them back here. I have wished since that I had kept my powder. Incidentally, I used the last of my supply of Dupont FFFG about five years ago. Still have the can.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Joe Martin
Location: NW Nebraska Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue 12 Feb, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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I picked this C&H powder up at State Shoot these last two years I went. I plan on keeping a few cans unopened for sentimental reasons. The other cans I will use for test such as the one in the works now. My reasoning is that I stand a better chance to replenish Goex, then to ever replenish C&H powder.
I can remeber paying a whole $5.50 for my first pound of Goex 2fg way back last century... Geezz, how times have changed. I could have bought Elephant BP for $4.50 a pound back then, but I decided to go with the good stuff and pay that extra $1.00... Afterall, gas was about .39 cents a gallon back then, but a whopping .42 to .46 cents a gallon on the Interstate...
Yep, back in the early to mid '70's a person could get a pound of powder, a tin of caps, 100 Hornady .490 round balls, some patches, for just a bit over a $10.00 dollar bill,,, less if you went with the Elephant powder... LOL! We truly have become our parents when we remember what was, and what is now... All in all, it still has been a great journey in a lifelong hobby. 
Joe
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Tue 12 Feb, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Martin wrote: | I picked this C&H powder up at State Shoot these last two years I went. I plan on keeping a few cans unopened for sentimental reasons. The other cans I will use for test such as the one in the works now. My reasoning is that I stand a better chance to replenish Goex, then to ever replenish C&H powder.
I can remeber paying a whole $5.50 for my first pound of Goex 2fg way back last century... Geezz, how times have changed. I could have bought Elephant BP for $4.50 a pound back then, but I decided to go with the good stuff and pay that extra $1.00... Afterall, gas was about .39 cents a gallon back then, but a whopping .42 to .46 cents a gallon on the Interstate...
Yep, back in the early to mid '70's a person could get a pound of powder, a tin of caps, 100 Hornady .490 round balls, some patches, for just a bit over a $10.00 dollar bill,,, less if you went with the Elephant powder... LOL! We truly have become our parents when we remember what was, and what is now... All in all, it still has been a great journey in a lifelong hobby. |
Yup...those were the days.
I bought my first semi-custom rifle in 1974. It was a Green River Rifle Works .54 cal. Leman half stock, percussion. It had a Kern coil spring lock. It would really shoot and I still have it after 34 years. Spent most of my tax refund on it that year. It was all of $200! (I corrected the price as I just remembered I did NOT pay $295 for it) I believe it was made by Phil "Blue Jacket" Saunders who worked at GRRW at the time.
A lot of water over the dam since then but, like you say, it has been and still is a great journey. I hope I can keep enough coordination and vision to shoot for another 25 years or so. I have given up on reenacting and rendezvous, mainly because of lack of time.
I hope to join a gun club near here this summer. Right now I am limited to 100 yards for shooting, at a nondescript range. The club I am looking at has a much better range and I might be able to do some experiments similar to what you are planning. I have a 17th c. Scottish rifle, with a converted snaphaunce lock, in .50 cal. that might be interesting to shoot for accuracy out to 300 yards.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
Last edited by Lin Robinson on Wed 13 Feb, 2008 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joe Martin
Location: NW Nebraska Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue 12 Feb, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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"I have a 17th c. Scottish rifle, with a converted snaphaunce lock, in .50 cal. that might be interesting to shoot for accuracy out to 300 yards."
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Lin, I think that would make a good test as well. It would be interesting to compare notes.
Every now and again someone will show up to Rendezvous with a Green River Rifle Works muzzle loader. I've always had the notion that those that own these rifles have kept them because they were built so well. I have never had the oportunity to have one apart, but 34 years of usage speaks well for them.
I cut my teeth on a .50 CVA Caplock Mountain Rifle when they carried the Douglas Barrel and Maple stock. Still have that rifle today after 30+ years, and still shoot it occassionally. For the past 15 years or so I've been building my own rifles,,, the Dickert style for Rendezvous and traditional shooting matches I have entered over the years. The other rifles I've built have been more ridged compitition rifles that fall under the NMLRA guidelines of matches. X-Sticks, & Chunk Rifles, also several offhand rifles, both in caplock and flint.
The latest rage seems to be the "one gun" match, not only at our annual state shoot, but the NMLRA Territorial matches as well. The 'one gun' match at state shoot however is not really a one gun match as you also have to shoot pistol with this match if you expect to compete for the state title. I finished 4th in last year's state shoot. My pistol shooting was my down fall as I only managed a score of 68 of 200 points from 25 and 50 yards, though overall I missed capturing 1st place with an overall score of 304... A score of 313 won state last year. So I do plan more pistol shooting practice before this years state matches. No one really shot that well last year at state. I guess we could blame the poor weather and the rain that would start pouring down in the middle of a match. A person kind'a looses their feel for the match when these delays take place. However, that is an excuse, and not a very good one! LOL...
Joe
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Wed 13 Feb, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Martin wrote: |
Every now and again someone will show up to Rendezvous with a Green River Rifle Works muzzle loader. I've always had the notion that those that own these rifles have kept them because they were built so well. I have never had the oportunity to have one apart, but 34 years of usage speaks well for them.
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They are quite well-built and very simple rifles, which makes them easy to clean and maintain. The only problem I have ever had with mine was with the barrel key. It is not "captured" and at a match in northern Virginia, about 1986 I think, I lost the darn thing, which was always a loose fit. By that time GRRW was out of business so I took a piece of key stock and laboriously filed out another one, which was a much tighter fit that the original.
My rifle is very accurate out to 100 yards but I don't know what it will do beyond that as I have never tried it. If I remember correctly, GRRW bought their rifling machines from the great Bill Large, whose barrels were renown for their accuracy. The Kern lock, while it is not authentic internally, can be adjusted for both trigger pull and hammer speed. There is a screw in the tumbler that adjusts sear engagement, which is how the trigger pull is adjusted. A screw at the end of the main spring adjusts the weight of the spring which allows you to improve lock speed. I have made minor adjustments to both. The muzzle is coned which makes it easy to load but I see no effect on the accuracy. A bad coning job will destroy accuracy, as I am sure you know.
Every now and then one of these guns shows up on Track of the Wolf's site for sale. They don't bring a lot, are nearly always used, and are excellent buys. Their Hawken would also be a good one to have if you can find one. I do highly recommend any of the GRRW rifles.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Joe Martin
Location: NW Nebraska Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed 13 Feb, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Ahh, Bill Large barrels! I wonder who has those rifling machines now? We had a discussion sometime ago on another site about Bill Large barrels. Seems a fellow had one and he was just beside himself why the the lands were so sharp. Well we explained to him that-that was the nature of the beast, and once he 'shot that barrel in' he'd have one of the best ML barrels ever made, bar none!
I even offered him a handsome price for the barrel, but he declined. Maybe I shouldn't of told him what a great barrel he had??? LOL! He wasn't looking to sell it any way as it was a rifle his father had handed down to him, and as I recall him saying that he could never remember his dad shooting it...
Bill Large barrels,,, what a great piece of American muzzle loading history!
Joe
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Thu 14 Feb, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Jeeze... I remember Dr. Gary White, Phil "Blue Jacket" Saunders, and the guys at Green River Rifle Works. There are a couple of Gary White's guns up for sale at Track of the Wolf now, in fact. I got into black powder and buckskinning back in the early '70's when I was a young 'teen, and those were the guys that I wanted to emulate and the guns I wanted to have. I still have a very nice little flintlock trade fusil that was put together by a fellow named Red Eye, who if you were in the Rendezvous circuit in the late-70's/early-'80's will remember for his tussle with John Baird. Brings back memories of a mis-spent youth... I didn't spend ALL my time at Rendezvous!
Cheers!
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Thu 14 Feb, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gordon Frye wrote: | Jeeze... I remember Dr. Gary White, Phil "Blue Jacket" Saunders, and the guys at Green River Rifle Works. There are a couple of Gary White's guns up for sale at Track of the Wolf now, in fact. I got into black powder and buckskinning back in the early '70's when I was a young 'teen, and those were the guys that I wanted to emulate and the guns I wanted to have. I still have a very nice little flintlock trade fusil that was put together by a fellow named Red Eye, who if you were in the Rendezvous circuit in the late-70's/early-'80's will remember for his tussle with John Baird. Brings back memories of a mis-spent youth... I didn't spend ALL my time at Rendezvous!
Cheers!
Gordon |
I check Track's site regularly and noticed a couple of very nice Gary White pieces there recently.
I was fortunate enough to attend the International Muzzle Loading Matches at Quantico, VA in 1980. I met Monte Mandarino, John Bivins, Mark Silver and several others while I was there. I also knew Lewis Sanchez, who ran a gun shop in Fayetteville, where I grew up. One of Earl Lanning's nieces lives here in Shelby.
When I first started in this stuff in 1968, I never dreamed I would maintain the interest in and enthusiasm for the sport for nearly 40 years.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Tue 26 Feb, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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I visited Track of the Wolf's site tonight and they happen to have a GRRW Leman Plains rifle - very much like mine - available. The main difference between this one and mine is the lock. Mine has the Kern coil spring lock while this one has a Ron Long lock. The front site is also different and the buttplate tang is octagonal, while mine is round. The stock architecture is virtually the same as is the barrel length, 33 inches.
What really amazed me was the price, which is a lot more than I have seen on these guns before. Makes me even more proud of mine.
Joe, you mentioned you might like to get a GRRW piece...here's your chance.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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