[Joel Chesser]

Comparing this sword to other gladii by other makers, I wondered if perhaps this wouldn't be a closer match to a fulham style gladius? The reason I ask is, if this type was changed, and we were looking at it as a fulham, would it be appeal more to the collector looking for historical accuracy? Fullers aside of coarse.

[Angus Trim]

I'm sure no one remembers Phoenix Metal Creations, but I got the profile of the blade from Erik a few years ago, and an illustration he had from some borrowed source. Sans fullers, the blade profile is accurate.......

The fullers? An artistic take on things. I have seen neither illustration or photo of a piece like this that had the fullers, but it really made the piece look nicer.....

The slim waist, accurate. The long point, accurate. The blade length, accurate. The fullers, artistic license........

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Anders Backlund]

[Hugh Fuller]

Interesting. Patrick Barta has two relatively early Roman swords with fullered blades, both based upon actual finds. The first is his no. 125, a Late Republican Gladius Hispaniensis, which is based upon a blade found in Grave 58 in Zemplin, Slovakia. The second is his no. 101 Canterbury-Kopi Type Roman Sword based upon a 2nd Century CE example in a museum in Krasnik, Poland. The no. 125 has 3 narrow fullers going nearly the whole length of the blade while the no. 101 appears to have 2 widely spaced short fullers at the base of the blade and the 3 narrowly spaced fullers going the length of the blade down to the taper to the point. Has anyone in this Forum seen either of the original swords or pictures thereof? It would be really fascinating to see if Patrick has made an "artistic interpretation" regarding the fullers.

Regarding the Valiant Armouries sword, it would make a better Gladius Hispaniensis than a Mainz, but it would require some changes to the scabbard design in order to do that. May I suggest an examination of Bishop's & Coulston's Roman Army Equipment: From the Punic Wars to the Fall of Rome for further consideration.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Very narrow and not very deep fullers like the one in the Valiant armoury gladius and the fullers mentioned on historical ones mentioned by Hugh would seem to me to be there mostly for aesthetic reasons than for any functional reasons I think.

Earlier bronze age swords seemed to have multiple fullers, ridges and incised lines that also seem to be only partially functional and mostly decorative in my opinion, so making a sword " pretty " was always part of the design process.

( Oh, some of the bronze swords with thick central ridges have those ridges to strengthen the blades but I'm thinking much more of the multiple and light ridges or fullers creating nice patterns on the blades ).

In any case I really like the lines of the Valiant armoury Gladius.

[Justin King]

Since Albion has already been mentioned I might point out that at least one of their not-yet-realeased spatha types sports twin fullers. As I am not very knowledgeable on pre-medieval history I won't comment too much further but I think that they may not be too far out of context. Complex fullering appeared on pre-Roman bronze swords as well so such things existed both before and after the mainz.
Having said that, if there is no known example of a mainz with twin fullers I would not call it an accurate mainz gladius, and if I were looking to add a mainz to my collection I would have to pass on this one.

[Angus Trim]

[Jean Thibodeau]

Mass manufacturing of the Gladius type swords may have been done to standard patterns at some times during the Roman period and " decorative " elements may have been dropped as a cost saving ( lowest bidder ? ).

Earlier manufacture in Republican times may have been more varied in design details and aesthetics more in fashion at times as well as the making more varied and done in smaller shops or factories ? Different factories may have worked with slightly different regional patterns ?

From what I have read here the Romans viewed the sword almost only as a work tool for the legionnaire and didn't have any great emotional attachment to swords ? An emperor, general or rich officer might have had a better quality of gladius or a more decorative one but in some cases a " working " general like Caesar ( fighting and leading from the front ) might just have used the same gladius in battle, even only for just a " republican " reason like using the same weapon as the common legionnaire for reasons of morale ? ( If the issue sword is good enough for the common soldier it's good enough for the general ). I'm seriously just guessing here and asking the question much more than saying that the above was the case.

Just to get back to the valiant Gladius: I imagine that the heat treat and other performance qualities should be better than most of the ones from other makers selling at equivalent prices ?

[Christopher Gregg]

Gus,

Too many sword people take the "it's not historically accurate enough for 'fill in the blank'" attitude, IMO. I think your design is beautiful, and historically plausible. Falcata swords often had decorative (functional?) fullers, and they're an even older design. Not saying that justifies putting fullers on just any sword, but I am saying that if a modern smith might want to decorate their design, then so might have an ancient smith. Just my $0.02 worth, and BTW, I don't own a Romanesque sword, but this one just might be my first!

[Mike Arledge]

I, for one, like the gladius design, and it was not my intent to rip it up on myArmoury. I was just trying to answer Chad's question, since he seemed to want to know how it might fit in to the spectrum of historical designs. I see nothing wrong with the design as a Roman inspired sword, but if it is an option, a non fullered pattern could attract buyers who otherwise have reenacment design requirements.

But it is a beautiful and stunning piece. I love the grip and hilt.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Darrin Hughes]

I'd like to back up Mike, and a couple of others here, in saying that I don't think this was intended as an attack on this sword. Chad asked about Historical accuracy out of curiousity, a number of us tried to answer as honestly as we could. At no point do I recall attacking the sword itself, in fact I said at least twice that I thought it was very attractive. Although I could live without the hearts around the diamond motif on the scabbard, it looks like somebody had a deck of cards in their eye-line when this was being designed.
However if you are going to give a sword a historical name, then you can expact a certain amount of stick if it doesn't match the type that it is named for. The Mainz Gladius was a specific sword named for the site where it was found. If you follow the outline, but then do something like adding the fullers it isn't a Mainz anymore. I'm afraid that I don't buy the historical plausibility argument in this case. If you had simply called it a Gladius and left it at that then you wouldn't have the same problem. People may still choose to argue over what sort of Gladius it might be, if they so wished, but they couldn't argue that it isn't a Gladius, ie, a short stabbing sword made popular by the Romans

It is a little bit worrying when some well intended, and fairly gentle, constructive criticism is still perceived as an attack.

One quick comment about Albion for Anders. On the subject of Fantasy swords; Albion do have a range of Fantasy swords with the Lady Vivamus, Martian Longsword, Hessian, etc, and I'm guessing that they don't sell in anything like the sort of numbers that the NG swords do. Possibly because they are pretty expensive. I would love to own a Lady Vivamus, I think it is a beautiful sword, I just can't justify spending that sort of cash at the moment when there are so many other things to pay for

I'd also be quite interested in knowing how many of the people saying that a little bit of artistic license is OK for a sword manufacturer, are the same ones who will jump on film-makers when they decide to get creative. I'm pretty sure that the makers of the most recent King Arthur movie tried to say that their movie was Historically Plausible based on new research. If the answer is none of you, then I apologise in advance.

Cheers,
Darrin.

btw, if I'd wanted to be really picky, then I could have pointed out that the Battle of Actium was in fact a major naval engagement, and so not one where the Gladius would have figured prominently, except when ships were being boarded. But no doubt it was chosen for marketing purposes just like calling the sword a Mainz. Something that people might recognise even if they weren't particularly familiar with Roman history.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Angus Trim]

[Chad Arnow]

I think it's important to remember that myArmoury readers are not the entirety of the sword-buying population. We're one segment of the market, and almost certainly not the largest one.

Also, many people here venerate Albion as the end-all. There are large portions of the sword-buying population that have either never heard of them or choose to buy other things for budgetary or other reasons. So, we can't assume that an Albion sword is everyone's dream sword. The market is larger than one company and larger than this community.

I think it's illuminating that Gus said this design would likely get ripped here. Given what many people here like and based on this thread, that's been borne out. However, we can't be so arrogant as to assume we're the target audience for every sword product.

[Angus Trim]

[Hugh Fuller]

OK, it is lunchtime and I had a few minutes to look for a copy of the article from the "Journal of Roman Military Equipment Studies" that I sent Erik when we were designing my Gladius Hispaniensis. It contains several blades that had been found and that had not been included in the first edition of Bishop & Coulston's book but most are in the 2nd edition my copy of which is at home. There are at least three blades shown in that article that are shaped remarkably like the Actium. The article is from Volume 10 of the Journal, is by Peter Connolly, and is titled "Pilum, Gladius and Pugio in the Late Republic" which would cover the period that includes Actium, both battle in 31 BCE and the sword.

Gus, my guess is that Erik sent you that article as he had a copy from me. Whether he should have done so is up to him as I understand that I was within my rights to put the article to personal use, which is what I did, having paid for it. If anyone wants to see the article, I suggest contacting the David Brown Book Company, the American distributors of the Journal, at david.brown.bk.co@snet.net

[Hugh Fuller]

Just to second Chad's observation that not everyone worships at the altar of Albion, I can honestly say that I have difficulty understanding how they ask what they do for a sword that is relatively mass produced by stock reduction rather than forged and comes without a scabbard. I may be off-base, but that is my opinion.

Now I put on my fireproof suit.

[Chad Arnow]