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David Black Mastro
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 Posted: Fri 04 Nov, 2005 7:10 am Post subject: |
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From Records...
The Type XVIIIa on pg 191 is one of the most beautiful swords I have ever seen--a really nice example of form following function, IMO.
I'm also intrigued by the Type XVIIIa on pg 194. I'm certainly not one to argue with the late Mr. Oakeshott, but I personally view this weapon as a small two-hander, as opposed to a "very big bastard sword". In fact, while the blade is slightly over Silver's "perfect length", I think this weapon may actually be an example of the type of two-hander Silver preferred (I personally disagree with Paul Wagner's assertion that Silver's two-hander was actually a bastard sword).
From European Weapons and Armour...
I would love to have a replica of the Venetian "proto-Schiavona" (for lack of a better term) shown at the top of pg 185 ("Venetian hilt, c. 1540).
From the Osprey Man-At-Arms title The Conquistadors by Terence Wise:
The two-hander on pg 14 ("two-handed sword, Spanish or German") is really slick-looking. The overall length is given as 53 inches, and I suspect this is another two-hander that Silver would have approved of.
"Why meddle with us--you are not strong enough to break us--you know that you have won the battle and slaughtered our army--be content with your honor, and leave us alone, for by God's good will only have we escaped from this business" --unknown Spanish captain to the Chevalier Bayard, at the Battle of Ravenna, 1512
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David Lannon
Location: East Bay California Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Fri 04 Nov, 2005 10:00 am Post subject: xx.4 |
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I would say the XX.4 on page 211. I couldn't find a pic of it to post but I love the beautiful XX blade with the cross from the "Munich" sword and the pommel form the Svante. Just perfect!!
Cheers
Dave Lannon
Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun!!!!
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Fri 04 Nov, 2005 11:14 am Post subject: from records |
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In descending order:
X 15 (Patrick's favourite?)
X 8 (Witham)
XII 10 (or maybe 11)
XIX 6 (I keep dismissing it as too fancy and not my period, but I get drawn back to it - visual balance? dunno)
Geoff
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Jeremiah Swanger
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 1:45 am Post subject: |
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For those of us who don't own a copy of Records, could somebody please post a picture of XX.4?
Thanks!
"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."
- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Wolfgang Armbruster
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 3:20 am Post subject: |
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This one seems to be very similar to the Svante by Peter Johnson 
Awesome piece!
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfgang Armbruster wrote: | This one seems to be very similar to the Svante by Peter Johnson
Awesome piece! |
I thought that at first glance. The pommel, with the three recesses, is strikingly similar, but the grip is different and the blade is even more so (multiple fullers, no narrowed ricasso etc. ). Maybe the pommel designer/cultler had a catlogue you could order from?
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Many fine choices listed in this thread, and it is difficult to pick just one.
Of those already mentioned, Xa.1 would probably top my list. But XVIIIa.5, Edward III, XVIII.1 (Henry V) and XX.4 are also very special in my mind. However, I am surprised that no one has mentioned these beauties:
XIV.1 (Morosini) , XV.9 and XVIII.4 from the Metropolitan Museum.
XII.15 – the Sword of Santa Casilda
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Wolfgang Armbruster
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Geoff Wood wrote: | | Wolfgang Armbruster wrote: | This one seems to be very similar to the Svante by Peter Johnson
Awesome piece! |
I thought that at first glance. The pommel, with the three recesses, is strikingly similar, but the grip is different and the blade is even more so (multiple fullers, no narrowed ricasso etc. ). Maybe the pommel designer/cultler had a catlogue you could order from? |
Yes, the grip appears to be slightly shorter. The cross-guard however looks more like the one on the XVIIIa in Munich.
Any info on where this sword was made?
The multi-fullered blade looks deadly. This must be a hell of a cutter
Somehow this sword looks like a mixture between the Svante and the sword of Heinrich der Fromme ( Historisches Museum Dresden). Please find the pic in the attachment.
 Attachment: 98.77 KB
Schlachtschwert [ Download ]
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfgang Armbruster wrote: |
The cross-guard however looks more like the one on the XVIIIa in Munich.
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Oakeshott agreed with you.
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Steve Grisetti wrote: |
However, I am surprised that no one has mentioned these beauties:
XIV.1 (Morosini) , XV.9 and XVIII.4 from the Metropolitan Museum.
XII.15 – the Sword of Santa Casilda |
I'd agree, the first three are all good of their type. I can't get past the pommel on the last one. Just looks clumsy somehow (personal taste).
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Edward Hitchens
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 7:50 am Post subject: |
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There's another one I really like; almost forgot about it. 
"Complex hilt 3" (page 243). Oakeshott once classified it a Type XVIII but then unclassified it when he wrote Archeology of Weapons. It is of the appropriate date (ca. 1480) when these types seemed to be most popular. He describes it as a "...very essence of a thrusting sword."
"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Jeremiah Swanger
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | | Jeremiah Swanger wrote: | | For those of us who don't own a copy of Records, could somebody please post a picture of XX.4? |
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Thanks, Nathan!
Definitely a very attractive sword. I believe that is the most acute point I have ever seen on a Type XX...
"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."
- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
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Jörg W.
Location: Germany Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: |
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XII #1 (page 66) : simple H guard, nice wheel pommel, perfect proportions. described by Oakeshott as "absolutely classic, or standard type XII sword.."
XVI #1 (p. 146): i like the XVI cut&trust blade; maybe a bit too long, but nice down curved ( type 7) guard.
XVI #4 (p. 151): so-called "riding sword"; having little room to maneuver this short (21", 53,4cm) blade must have been a nice team with a small shield. I wonder if we will ever see anything like that at Albion as most people seem to prefer the long blades.
XVII #8 (p. 166): elegant sword, the slightly down curved guard and the T.4 pommel together with that slim and pointy blade makes it look very dynamic.
and now the ugliest sword from records 
XVIa #3 (p. 154): this short bow guard (Oakeshotts: " rather exaggerated 6") is the ugliest i have ever seen. and the type K pommel (Oakeshotts: " rather exaggerated K").. well, it doesn't turn it around 
Last edited by Jörg W. on Sun 06 Nov, 2005 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tim Lison
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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XII.9 This one is just so clean looking. Very classic and simple and with such nice proportions. A no nonsense tool for war! Love it!
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Glen A Cleeton
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| Posted: Sat 05 Nov, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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While doing some research on guilds, I came across and interesting aside to the Edward III
sword.
Something that had always made me go hmmmm about was the piece of cloth in the pommel.
| Quote: | <snip>Edward III reconstituted and legitimated the trading fraternities by recognising their distinctive liveries259 and providing them with charters or letters patent, the King himself led a rush of non-operatives to join. Presumably meaning he was initiated in a mock-up manner, and given access to some ersatz secrets, it is recorded that he 'became' a Linen-Armourer. His successor Richard II became a brother of the same company</snip>
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This from
http://www.takver.com/history/benefit/ctormys-02.htm
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My favorite would be hard to narrow down but I love my A&A XVa and I like the big XIIa in records, I think it's XIIa.4 (book wrapped and buried).
Cheers
GC
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Edward Hitchens
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| Posted: Sun 06 Nov, 2005 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Jörg W. wrote: |
and now the ugliest sword from records
XVIa #3 (p. 154): this short bow guard (Oakeshotts: " rather exaggerated 6") is the ugliest i have ever seen. and the type K pommel (Oakeshotts: " rather exaggerated K").. well, it doesn't turn it around |
Yeah, there are a few I'm not particularly fond of: Type XIV.2 and Type XVIII.12 (pgs 117 and 183). Those Type XXI's and XXII's make me go "huh?!" 
Oh, and yet another favorite (I should be punished for not thinking of it earlier  ): Type XVIIIa.10 (Hey A&A fans! Look familiar?  ).
"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Mon 07 Nov, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Edward Hitchens wrote: | | Jörg W. wrote: | and now the ugliest sword from records
XVIa #3 (p. 154): this short bow guard (Oakeshotts: " rather exaggerated 6") is the ugliest i have ever seen. and the type K pommel (Oakeshotts: " rather exaggerated K").. well, it doesn't turn it around |
Yeah, there are a few I'm not particularly fond of: Type XIV.2 and Type XVIII.12 (pgs 117 and 183). Those Type XXI's and XXII's make me go "huh?!" |
XVIa.3, XIV.2, XVIII.12 and (in particular) XXII.1 are some excellent choices for ugliest, but I actually like the other XXI and XXII's.
Another unfavorite from my perspective is Xa.10 - I really don't appreciate that type N pommel.
| Edward Hitchens wrote: | | Oh, and yet another favorite (I should be punished for not thinking of it earlier ): Type XVIIIa.10 (Hey A&A fans! Look familiar? ). |
Yes, that Schloss Erbach piece is another beauty!
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Tue 15 Apr, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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To me has to be X13...what Oakeshott called "an absolutely classic example of a Type X sword".
The broad 34" blade, wide spike hilt, and heavy Brazil nut pommel, all arranged in near perfect symmetry, make this a real life hero sword. This was not a sword made for nimble fencing, this was a sword made for dealing devastating cuts from the back of a horse at the dawn of the medieval era.
If anyone knows of a replica of this sword, or even some more information or photos of it, I would appreciate it.
-JDC
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Tue 15 Apr, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: Of interest to me |
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Since this thread has been brought back to life, and it did mention "or other sources" here are a couple that have me intrigued right now.
Attachment: 37.77 KB
From the Cluny in Paris (if memory serves). Photo by Mathieu Harlaut.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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This is a standard topic
