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Jean Thibodeau
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 Posted: Thu 08 May, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: |
For example, a maker may quote a custom piece at $800. While making it, they may discover that they should have asked for more because it's more involved than they thought. They shouldn't change prices once they've agreed on it with that customer, of course. But the next person who orders it may get $1000 as the quote on the same project.
Plus the price of labor and materials has changed in the past few years, too.
It's best to do what A&A's website says: Contact them for a current quote.  |
I have to agree with Chad from personal experience here: I have a " talent " for thinking of " interesting " projects that seem to cause the makers to sort of regret the " quotes " they gave me as the designs seem to be much more challenging than they thought.  
Sometimes the difficulties have just been bad luck with heat treating or more than expected complexities in the grind lines or forging.
Anyway, I'm sure that if someone wanted the same designs made the cost would be 300% after the maker(s) really knows how much work it's going to be.
Here is one example: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...p;start=60
Picks on page 4 of the finished Langue de Boeuf and pics on page 2 of early concept drawings in attachments.
Here is another project being made by OlliN, assuming you haven't seen these Topics before:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8131
Notice that both of these projects became or have become multi year projects for all sorts of valid reasons.
Now custom projects aren't always this long to finish but sometimes they can be actually even longer ! Look at these as prototypes: More copies would be priced higher but at the same time the process of making them would be easier for the maker to figure out a price where he is actually making a profit.
Less extreme projects similar to other things that the maker has already made might be more accurately priced and timelined. ( Estimated delivery times shorter.  ).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Chris Artman
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| Posted: Fri 09 May, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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I know that. Perhaps I should have requested a private email. If you can send that to me privately, that would be fine, or just post it. We all know things can change, but it shouldn't be a secret what one paid. I don't think it is a big deal... It is also good for a ball park, and also to know how much somethign might have gone up in price. I thought this was rather obvious and it would be nice to know... So if you could, feel free to post or send me a PM, thanks
*Those two swords he mentioned aren't really custom, per se... They make the same thing over and over upon request...*
I'll have to submit one to Ollin sometime soon, if I get some good news on June 7th... But that would be a true custom... I'm drawing something up now...
I'll be anxious to see how Albion's Dane compares to A&A... We know the price of the Albion Dane is a little over $1200.00 I'd be curious to know what A&A is chrging for their current 'custom' Dane... Again, don't really see how this is custom if they are doing the same design over and over on a per ordered basis... but this is only in reference to the two A&A swords.
Yea, I'm sure a lot of these one-time, truely custom projects can be a handful... Wow, thanks Jean for pointing me to your story about the Ravenwolf... that is really something. I design and build speakers and understand the physics involved, so I know how amazing custom can be... Imagine having the skills these guys do and being able to creat for yourself any masterpiece your heart desires. I'd like to take on something custom... I'll see what happens June 7th...
Thanks for sharing your stories...
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 09 May, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Artman wrote: | I know that. Perhaps I should have requested a private email. If you can send that to me privately, that would be fine, or just post it. We all know things can change, but it shouldn't be a secret what one paid. I don't think it is a big deal... It is also good for a ball park, and also to know how much somethign might have gone up in price. I thought this was rather obvious and it would be nice to know... So if you could, feel free to post or send me a PM, thanks
*Those two swords he mentioned aren't really custom, per se... They make the same thing over and over upon request...*
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Those two A&A swords *are* custom. They may make them again upon request, but they are hand-made. Their production swords are more easily reproduceable, by design, with molds for the hilt components and a shape for the blade blank. There aren't molds and blank for custom stuff: the custom things have to be built from scratch from the ground up each time. Hence the word custom.
I still thinking getting pricing info from anyone but the maker is foolish. I've been in this hobby a long time and have been on forums like this for a long time and know from experience that smiths prefer making their own price quotes. Those of us who've been around a while and have come to respect the smiths who take their time to participate on this (and other) forums typically don't publicly quote custom prices as a courtesy and show of respect to smiths. It's one of those understood gentlemen's agreements.
I'm not saying prices should be a secret, but in my experience (more than 10 years in this marketplace) it's always best to go to the source for quotes. Makers can cut deals with customers they're friendly with or they underestimate the actual cost of the project at the start. Plus, the cost of materials changes, etc. They may also charge more for projects they're not thrilled about and less for something new they really want to try. It's so variable.
Posting custom prices makes many people think that's what the project costs for anyone, anytime. The makers I know prefer not to be locked into an old price that's been posted publicly, but to quote each custom job in a custom fashion. Why do you think A&A doesn't list the prices of those items on their site?
I can't stop people from exchanging this info publicly or privately, though. I just don't understand why someone wouldn't go to the source. It took more time for you to compose these forum posts about pricing than to send A&A a quick email asking for ballpark pricing on having those items made again...
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Ben Sweet
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| Posted: Fri 09 May, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Svante
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Chris Artman
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| Posted: Sat 10 May, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: |
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Looking forward to her!
Funny, I just watched Gladiator tonight for a bit... skipped thru parts. Great demo for the home theater. Man there were some amazing maces and that trident was sweet. That Flail that guy was swinging was very impressive. Not only that, the battle axe that Tibrius Gore (the champion Maximus fought with the tigers) was using was quite large: the handle and the blade was awesome. I'm going to have to take some still photos of some of those weapons. Call me crazy, but I really want a killer trident
Those maces and Flails in gladiator, the balls and spikes were much more impressive than the stuff I see for sale anywhere... I have a flail, but nothing like that in the movie... I have a nice mace on the way, but nothing like the movie either... I just finished putting a 300 outfit together using the Windlass King Leonidas helmet with real horsehair, shield, sword, spearhead and butcap, shin guards, and forearm guards, sandals, wolf claw necklace, etc... Got the briefs custom tailored leather though since windlass designed the 300 leather briefs like crap. Got the cape still being worked on (Neca's was decent, but the tailor can do better). Bought a black abstract mannequin which should be here in 4 weeks to mount the stuff on, until I feel like wearing it Motivation for the gym... Fun stuff.
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Anders Backlund
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| Posted: Sat 10 May, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Artman wrote: | Peter Johnsson's Sword specs:
EXHIBIT SPECIFICATIONS
Total length: 116,5 cm
Blade length: 86,8 cm
Blade width at base: 7.8 cm
Grip length: 21,5 cm
Weight: 1,5 kilos
Balance point: 8.5 cm from guard
Forward poivot point: At point of the blade
Aft poivot point: 34 cm from guard
Blade node: 50 cm from guard
Grip node: 9 cm from guard |
Damn, that thing is a lot larger then it looks like on the pictures. oO
| Chris Artman wrote: | http://www.armabohemia.cz/Novestr/newsA.htm
I see the 'Munich' looking sword Justin mentioned. |
I'm a bit confused. You mean the PT6? That's one of my all time favourites, though I wouldn't say it looks much like the Munich.
I would think he meant the EP 28 on the Military Life > Swords page.
| Paul Watson wrote: | | Angus Trims tac line has some items that would have a feasible modern military application. All of them would be suitable given their construction for various reasons such as durability and maintenance, but it is hard to see some such as the longsowrd having a real modern military application. Check with Gus about the intention of this line. |
Personally, I've never really understood the idea behind "tactical swords." I mean, aren't all swords tactical, in the sense that they are weapons?
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
I have to agree with Chad from personal experience here: I have a " talent " for thinking of " interesting " projects that seem to cause the makers to sort of regret the " quotes " they gave me as the designs seem to be much more challenging than they thought. |
That's a nice talent to have.
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.
"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 10 May, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
I have to agree with Chad from personal experience here: I have a " talent " for thinking of " interesting " projects that seem to cause the makers to sort of regret the " quotes " they gave me as the designs seem to be much more challenging than they thought. |
| Anders Blacklund wrote: | | That's a nice talent to have. |
Since I like the makers I would still prefer if they actually made a profit on an hourly/dollars basis but I have to add that no maker I have delt with has complained about not charging enough or asked for more than the originally quoted price: Just thought I would mention this as I find it a very honourable way to do business.
But I'm certainly appreciative of those underestimated original quotes. 
Oh, and when I have added stuff to a project like an un-included in the price scabbard or some late changes to a design involving more work we have adjusted, after discussion, the quoted price upward or have had the extra piece ( scabbard ) priced and paid as a separate EXTRA.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 10 May, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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To answer the original question about favourite two handed sword I would say this one:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/sword156.html
BIG ! And really a two hander as opposed to a longsword or bastard sword: For those the A & A Black Prince is the most agile and my Christian Fletcher/AT 1435 is a good tweener between the huge 15th century two hander and the Black Prince.
So, " favourite " is very much changeable depending on mood. 
( EDITED: I originally wrote 1434 instead of 1435 )
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Sun 11 May, 2008 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Sat 10 May, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | To answer the original question about favourite two handed sword I would say this one:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/sword156.html
BIG ! And really a two hander as opposed to a longsword or bastard sword: For those the A & A Black Prince is the most agile and my Christian Fletcher/AT 1434 is a good tweener between the huge 15th century two hander and the Black Prince.
So, " favourite " is very much changeable depending on mood. |
Jean,
Could you post a picture of the CF/AT 1434 by chance? Sorry to run off topic but I am interested to see what it looks like? Also what Oakshotte Type is it?
Thank you,
Scott
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Chris Artman
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Sat 10 May, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the links Chris. I never even thought to look at Christian's site.  I would not mind seeing Jean's though.
Scott
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Paul Watson
Location: Upper Hutt, New Zealand Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 395
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| Posted: Sat 10 May, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Anders Backlund"] | Chris Artman wrote: | Peter Johnsson's Sword specs:
EXHIBIT SPECIFICATIONS
Total length: 116,5 cm
Blade length: 86,8 cm
Blade width at base: 7.8 cm
Grip length: 21,5 cm
Weight: 1,5 kilos
Balance point: 8.5 cm from guard
Forward poivot point: At point of the blade
Aft poivot point: 34 cm from guard
Blade node: 50 cm from guard
Grip node: 9 cm from guard |
Damn, that thing is a lot larger then it looks like on the pictures. oO
| Chris Artman wrote: | http://www.armabohemia.cz/Novestr/newsA.htm
I see the 'Munich' looking sword Justin mentioned. |
I'm a bit confused. You mean the PT6? That's one of my all time favourites, though I wouldn't say it looks much like the Munich.
I would think he meant the EP 28 on the Military Life > Swords page.
| Paul Watson wrote: | | Angus Trims tac line has some items that would have a feasible modern military application. All of them would be suitable given their construction for various reasons such as durability and maintenance, but it is hard to see some such as the longsowrd having a real modern military application. Check with Gus about the intention of this line. |
Personally, I've never really understood the idea behind "tactical swords." I mean, aren't all swords tactical, in the sense that they are weapons?
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
I have to agree with Chad from personal experience here: I have a " talent " for thinking of " interesting " projects that seem to cause the makers to sort of regret the " quotes " they gave me as the designs seem to be much more challenging than they thought. |
That's a nice talent to have. [/quote
Anders, email Angus if you want to know the idea behind his tac line. Yes all swords are tactical but the idea is a modern application, modern materials and assembly.
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, but that which it protects. (Faramir, The Two Towers)
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Addison C. de Lisle
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| Posted: Sat 10 May, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'd have to say that my absolute favorite two hander is the piece mentioned earlier in this thread by Peter Johnsson for the Masters of Fire exhibit. I love the proportions of that blade, the size and details, just the whole package is exquisite.
www.addisondelisle.com
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sun 11 May, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Scott Kowalski wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: | To answer the original question about favourite two handed sword I would say this one:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/sword156.html
BIG ! And really a two hander as opposed to a longsword or bastard sword: For those the A & A Black Prince is the most agile and my Christian Fletcher/AT 1434 is a good tweener between the huge 15th century two hander and the Black Prince.
So, " favourite " is very much changeable depending on mood. |
Jean,
Could you post a picture of the CF/AT 1434 by chance? Sorry to run off topic but I am interested to see what it looks like? Also what Oakshotte Type is it?
Thank you,
Scott |
Here is an entire Topic discussion my purchase of the CF/AT 1435 ( Sorry, I wrote 1434 before: Will go back and edit that post )
Pics at the end of page 2 of posts: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=6679&start=20
There is also a mini review of the sword by me. ( handling only )
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Stu C
Location: Western Australia Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Sun 11 May, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: |
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I think my favourite (today) has got to be my Yeudall claymore (second from the left in the attachment). Tends to change on a fairly frequent basis, mind as I have limited wall space and tend to cycle through the collection with one on display and the others shoved under the bed until I fancy a change.... And, like everyone else here (seemingly), I would quite like to get a Svante at some point!
 Attachment: 102.34 KB
[ Download ]
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Sun 11 May, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Scott Kowalski wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: | To answer the original question about favourite two handed sword I would say this one:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/sword156.html
BIG ! And really a two hander as opposed to a longsword or bastard sword: For those the A & A Black Prince is the most agile and my Christian Fletcher/AT 1434 is a good tweener between the huge 15th century two hander and the Black Prince.
So, " favourite " is very much changeable depending on mood. |
Jean,
Could you post a picture of the CF/AT 1434 by chance? Sorry to run off topic but I am interested to see what it looks like? Also what Oakshotte Type is it?
Thank you,
Scott |
Here is an entire Topic discussion my purchase of the CF/AT 1435 ( Sorry, I wrote 1434 before: Will go back and edit that post )
Pics at the end of page 2 of posts: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=6679&start=20
There is also a mini review of the sword by me. ( handling only ) |
Jean,
Thank you for posting the pictures. And it is not a problem about the 1434, though it did confuse me at first. I believe that you posted that thread while I was waiting for my 1423 to get done by Christian.
Scott
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Sun 11 May, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Stu C wrote: | | I think my favourite (today) has got to be my Yeudall claymore (second from the left in the attachment). Tends to change on a fairly frequent basis, mind as I have limited wall space and tend to cycle through the collection with one on display and the others shoved under the bed until I fancy a change.... And, like everyone else here (seemingly), I would quite like to get a Svante at some point! |
Stu,
That is a great looking Claymore you have. What is the sword to the left of it if I may ask? It looks pretty good as well.
Scott
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Jared Smith
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| Posted: Sun 11 May, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: |
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At least in terms of cosmetics, one of my favorites to look at has been the Gallowglass.
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...rd-xix.htm
There are several stylish but functional extras on that design, and its statistics look a little deceptive to me. I have not held one, but would guess it to be nimble as two handers go. I would love to try test cutting with one someday!
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Paul Watson
Location: Upper Hutt, New Zealand Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 395
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| Posted: Sun 11 May, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I found this photo of a Peter Johnsson sword. I am wondering if it is the same one, although some of the features seem to differ slightly. Perhaps Peter may want to comment on this sword if it is indeed the same one as so much interest has been shown in it, if the moderators do not consider it too off topic.
Attachment: 31.93 KB
Peter Johnsson sword 2
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, but that which it protects. (Faramir, The Two Towers)
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Stu C
Location: Western Australia Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Sun 11 May, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Kowalski wrote: | | Stu C wrote: | | I think my favourite (today) has got to be my Yeudall claymore (second from the left in the attachment). Tends to change on a fairly frequent basis, mind as I have limited wall space and tend to cycle through the collection with one on display and the others shoved under the bed until I fancy a change.... And, like everyone else here (seemingly), I would quite like to get a Svante at some point! |
Stu,
That is a great looking Claymore you have. What is the sword to the left of it if I may ask? It looks pretty good as well.
Scott |
Hi Scott,
Thanks - the one to the left is a Yeudall Hand-and-a-half sword (mine is the blunt version for re-enactment, which I picked up on eBay, but which I believe looks very similar to the 'regular' version). The right-most two are a Lowland two-hander and a replica of the sword attributed (probably erroneously) to William Wallace.
Cheers
Stu
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