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Jean Thibodeau
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 Posted: Mon 30 Jun, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Kowalski wrote: | [
Would anyone else like to add anything? I obviously have a couple of more details to work out before sending this out for quotes from whom I am interested in having do this.
Scott |
The shape of the axe is going in the right direction but I would have brought the top horn forward a bit more and have the bottom curve of the axe profile echo the angle of the edge a little more: The top horn is now about half way between where it was in the first concept drawing and where I would draw it myself.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jun, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Scott Kowalski wrote: | [
Would anyone else like to add anything? I obviously have a couple of more details to work out before sending this out for quotes from whom I am interested in having do this.
Scott |
The shape of the axe is going in the right direction but I would have brought the top horn forward a bit more and have the bottom curve of the axe profile echo the angle of the edge a little more: The top horn is now about half way between where it was in the first concept drawing and where I would draw it myself. |
I think I understand what you are trying to say Jean. I am kind of tired though so I am a little fuzzy. I am going to revisit what you are saying tomorrow.
Are you saying that the horn should go out further or start earlier? For the bottom curve you are talking about the bottom portion of the blade correct? Or the part of the head that is nearest the haft?
I really should look at this after getting a good nights sleep and then revisit what you are saying.
Scott
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jun, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Kowalski wrote: |
Are you saying that the horn should go out further or start earlier? For the bottom curve you are talking about the bottom portion of the blade correct? Or the part of the head that is nearest the haft?
I really should look at this after getting a good nights sleep and then revisit what you are saying.
Scott |
Top horn out further to give the main edge more of an angle of attack.
I think the bottom half of the blade but the rear part that should curve from the eye and become close to parrallel to the angle of the curve of the edge.
Here is a quick Photoshop version of what I mean over your last version:
 Attachment: 65.53 KB
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Gavin Kisebach
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jun, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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This looks more like a danish axe by the minute 
If this is to be a single hander, then we've moved away from the optimum level of agility as the head gets larger, and further away from the haft. That is unless the blade is very, very thin. Or the head is smaller oveall than I think it is; what is the length of the bit? How about the distance from center haft to edge?
The first version looked like it had about a five inch blade based on the size of the haft. The las version that Jean posited looks closer to eight or nine inches. You could still keep the last form (very cool form, btw) but you'll have to scale it back to remain wieldy.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jun, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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The first version of the axe looked more like a woodworking axe to me ? Could be wrong.
The distance of the edge could be scaled back by making the " neck " ( If one calls it that ) shorter and the edge closer to the haft.
Yes, it is sort of turning into a Viking bearded axe in my drawing but maybe this is because that looks so good to my eye.
If scaled back the edge in my drawing could be down to 6" , maybe, or scaled up to 8" to a really too big 10" for a one handed axe.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Gavin Kisebach
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jun, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The first version of the axe looked more like a woodworking axe to me |
Thank was my impression too.  I was actually reminded of this Japanese hand axe (see pic) that I like very much.
The tendency is to stretch the piece rather than cut it down, but if Scott wants to keep this in the single hander realm I think he'll end up either trimming some of the lines, or shrinking the relative size of the head to the size of the socket (see pic again). i tried to bring the head back down to size without losing the overall shape which is really very good.
Another small think to consider, just as a brainstorming idea, would be a hammer poll on the back of the head. I've added this to my pic just for giggles.
{edit} this looks a lot like an axe that Eric McHugh made not too long ago....
Attachment: 5.92 KB
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Tue 01 Jul, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the picture Jean. It is what I pictured. I was just to tired last night to picture it in my head.
I agree with Gavin that this is starting to look like a Viking bearded axe which I want to avoid. As I said earlier. One of the influences on the design of this axe is the one pictured in my third post.
As to the size of the axe head? In the end I am going to work with whomever I decide to make it about nailing down the final size to get the axe within my limitations of it being a one handed axe.
I will be getting the design team working some more on some of the suggested revisions to see how they look.
Keep the ideas coming people,
Scott
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Peter Törlind
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| Posted: Tue 01 Jul, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: Gränsfors Axes |
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Please look at axes from the Swedish maker Gränsfors (www.gransfors.se) they have some nice replica axes.
Thay have a publication with their replica axes, can be found here: Replica Axes
There are some nice axes there... I have the Two-Lugged Beard Axe, and it's beautiful.
Peter Törlind, reanactor from northen part of Sweden
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Tue 01 Jul, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Gränsfors Axes |
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| Peter Törlind wrote: | Please look at axes from the Swedish maker Gränsfors (www.gransfors.se) they have some nice replica axes.
Thay have a publication with their replica axes, can be found here: Replica Axes
There are some nice axes there... I have the Two-Lugged Beard Axe, and it's beautiful.
Peter Törlind, reanactor from northen part of Sweden |
Thank you for the links Peter. I have looked at the Granfors site but nothing appeals to me on the level I am looking for and thus my decision to go custom for this.
Scott
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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After looking at thepictures that Jean and Gavin created and thinking about what they said and drew I have come up with revision with the help of my design team. Here it is:
I think that it comes closer to what both Jean and Gavin were suggesting. I do apologize though Gavin as the hammer bit did not survive. While I like the idea of the hammer back that will probably be a whole new project after the axe, a knife, a couple of Albion swords and a glaive project I am looking at.  Let's not forget needing to get a kit as well at some point!
So what are everyone's thoughts on the latest version. I think it is close to what I want. As for the dimensions of the head I will talk with whomever makes it to insure that it stays within my weight range.
The handle is still up in the air as well at this point though it is down to two shapes. Once again that will be something I discuss with the smith to see what they feel most comfortable with and what will work best for this application.
Scott
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Looks visually attractive to me with nice proportions and harmonious curves,
When you say no hammer does this mean that the socket will be rounded at the back or flattened out into a hammer-like flat ?
In your drawing the only thing I question is that you have the width of the haft is only a " pencil line " narrower than the back of the axe socket and that would mean an extremely thin socket wall ?
Maybe just a drawing oversight ? If the socket wall is thick enough making it flat is easy and this can serve as a hammering surface but still not be a real hammer unless extended to some greater thickness.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Craig Peters
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Not to throw everything out the window Scott, but there's an axe in Oakeshott's The Archaeology of Weapons from Northumbria that dates to the mid 13th century. While it's shape is significantly different from the concept art you've drawn, at least you have the benefit of working from an actual peroid axe from your era of interest. The axe also appears as figure 155 in Nicolle's Arms and Armor of the Crusading Era Vol I. An English manuscript dated to 1250 to 1275 depicts an axe very similar to this one.
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Danny Grigg
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| Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Craig Peters wrote: | | Not to throw everything out the window Scott, but there's an axe in Oakeshott's The Archaeology of Weapons from Northumbria that dates to the mid 13th century. While it's shape is significantly different from the concept art you've drawn, at least you have the benefit of working from an actual peroid axe from your era of interest. The axe also appears as figure 155 in Nicolle's Arms and Armor of the Crusading Era Vol I. An English manuscript dated to 1250 to 1275 depicts an axe very similar to this one. |
Craig
Do you have pics of the axe from Nicolle's Arms and Armor of the Crusading Era Vol I or the English manuscript?
I already have Oakeshott's Archaeology of Weapons.
I'm curious to see what the axe from the manuscript looks like.
Thanks
Danny
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Danny Grigg wrote: | | Craig Peters wrote: | | Not to throw everything out the window Scott, but there's an axe in Oakeshott's The Archaeology of Weapons from Northumbria that dates to the mid 13th century. While it's shape is significantly different from the concept art you've drawn, at least you have the benefit of working from an actual peroid axe from your era of interest. The axe also appears as figure 155 in Nicolle's Arms and Armor of the Crusading Era Vol I. An English manuscript dated to 1250 to 1275 depicts an axe very similar to this one. |
Craig
Do you have pics of the axe from Nicolle's Arms and Armor of the Crusading Era Vol I or the English manuscript?
I already have Oakeshott's Archaeology of Weapons.
I'm curious to see what the axe from the manuscript looks like.
Thanks
Danny |
Craig,
I'm with Danny on this one. I do not have the book though I am thinking that I should start to look for it. So if you could please post both this picture and the other ones you mentioned in your post in the thread about knightly axe I would appreciate it.
Scott
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Scott Kowalski
Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Looks visually attractive to me with nice proportions and harmonious curves,
When you say no hammer does this mean that the socket will be rounded at the back or flattened out into a hammer-like flat ?
In your drawing the only thing I question is that you have the width of the haft is only a " pencil line " narrower than the back of the axe socket and that would mean an extremely thin socket wall ?
Maybe just a drawing oversight ? If the socket wall is thick enough making it flat is easy and this can serve as a hammering surface but still not be a real hammer unless extended to some greater thickness. |
I was hoping you would say that Jean.
I know that the back of the socket is thin but my design team is not used to drawing medieaval weapons (It is my wife after all !). So chalk it up to just a drawing oversight as you said. So the back of the socket will be modified to account fort this so that it does not compromise the integrity of the axe.
Scott
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This is a standard topic