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Jean Thibodeau
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 Posted: Mon 01 Sep, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Brian K. wrote: | | Having done custom work on a number of these, I can tell you nothing has changed, yet. My thorough inspection of each one tells me that the problem isn't random either. They all have a very thin tip, making for a poor thrusting sword. However, aside from the random 'crooked' furniture, most of them seem to be fine swords for the sub $300 category. I haven't done any cutting with any of the, but from what I've been told they make for a good cutting sword. |
Thanks, I guess I will wait to hear from Ryan and make a decision then:
1) Go ahead with the purchase.
or
2) Apply the payment for the improved version if that works for Ryan. ( Assuming the wait won't be more than a couple of months ).
or
3) Cancel the purchase before any shipping Customs clearance costs have been spent and re-order when the improved model is available.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 02 Sep, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Ryan at Kult of Athena just got in touch with me and he has asked Clyde for more details about the next production run with thicker point.
He looked at the one I ordered and did some light flex tests and it looked O.K. to him, didn't take a set and a side by side comparison with the A & A version the point seems about the same in thickness: The problem with the one Mike tested was made worse due to a bad heat treatment near the tip, or at least this is one possible explanation.
He think the difference between this production run and the next will be between a normal point and a reinforced point: The reinforced point version may end up being heavier or more forward balanced.
In any case this is just a little bit of his e-mail and I have all the options of going through with the order as is, hold the payment for the next production run or get a refund: So, I have to say that again Ryan is giving the superior customer service I have come to know from him.
I will decide in a few days which option I will choose but I'm leaning toward going forward with the purchase.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Brian K.
Industry Professional
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Tue 02 Sep, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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You will probably be happy with it, though the grip is a little thick, which is typical of Gen 2 swords. I know a friend of mine ordered one and loved the way it handled and cut, but rolled the tip on a thrust. He was able to repair it, and wanted to keep it simply because it performed so well in all other aspects.
Brian Kunz
www.dbkcustomswords.com
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Brian K.
Industry Professional
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Tue 02 Sep, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Found the image I was looking for
Brian Kunz
www.dbkcustomswords.com
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 02 Sep, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the pic and thank for the ruler next to the sword tip as it gives some idea of the scale of the potential problem.
Still mulling over waiting for the next production run or not ? But should mine crumple up like that I think I could shorten the point and reshape it into a more spatulate and wider point that would be more robust.
Different type of sword but my Sovereign has a pretty thin blade near the point but a type XVIII would be more of a maille piercing type or more designed for optimum use finding chinks in between plate armour.
If the grip is too thick I can remove the leather reduce the core in size a bit and recover myself, although I often find handle being a little too small instead.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Brian K.
Industry Professional
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Tue 02 Sep, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Of the sub $300 sword manufacturers, I prefer Gen 2, especially because their scabbards are the best for that price range. Reshaping the tip would probably be a good solution, though it would be nice getting a sword that didn't need fixed, right? If you're set on a Gen 2 Henry and you can wait for the fix, I would. I've had 7 or 8 pass through my hands and 2 of them I refused to do custom work on because I didn't like what I saw. Most all of them had the furniture slightly skewed, but in the sub $300 market most all of them (manufacturers) have flaws of some sort, so I have to really be loose on my judgement. The two I held back had really twisted furniture, and one had something rattling in the pommel.
For the price, Gen 2 put a lot of work into this one, and I'll always say I like Gen 2 for the price. But over time I've become quite picky, and I no longer collect the lower end of the spectrum. I get to handle them all anyways, and that's about all I need to be satisfied.
Brian Kunz
www.dbkcustomswords.com
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 02 Sep, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe tilting more towards waiting for the stronger tip version since if I was designing it I would design this type of sword with a more armour piercing reinforced tip: Even if I might end up liking the current version the improved version might " NAG ' at me knowing that if I could compare them side by side I think I would tend to like the stronger tip.
AAAAAAH ......... as soon as I have some new information to factor in from Ryan I will stop being " WISHY-WASHY " about it and make a decision. Really lucky to have a vendor who is nice enough to leave me all the options. 
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Mike Arledge
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| Posted: Wed 03 Sep, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Maybe tilting more towards waiting for the stronger tip version since if I was designing it I would design this type of sword with a more armour piercing reinforced tip: Even if I might end up liking the current version the improved version might " NAG ' at me knowing that if I could compare them side by side I think I would tend to like the stronger tip.
AAAAAAH ......... as soon as I have some new information to factor in from Ryan I will stop being " WISHY-WASHY " about it and make a decision. Really lucky to have a vendor who is nice enough to leave me all the options. |
Jean,
If you don't mind mt two cents, I would wait. As it is, even with the tip issue, its a good sword. But, all it will take is a misplaced cut near the tip or a thrust and it is likely the tip would roll on you. I cna't imagine reinforcing the tip would substantially change the dynamic cutting properties, and I think the stouter tip will be of immense value.
Good luck!
Mike J Arledge
The Dude Abides
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 03 Sep, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Arledge wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Maybe tilting more towards waiting for the stronger tip version since if I was designing it I would design this type of sword with a more armour piercing reinforced tip: Even if I might end up liking the current version the improved version might " NAG ' at me knowing that if I could compare them side by side I think I would tend to like the stronger tip.
AAAAAAH ......... as soon as I have some new information to factor in from Ryan I will stop being " WISHY-WASHY " about it and make a decision. Really lucky to have a vendor who is nice enough to leave me all the options. |
Jean,
If you don't mind mt two cents, I would wait. As it is, even with the tip issue, its a good sword. But, all it will take is a misplaced cut near the tip or a thrust and it is likely the tip would roll on you. I cna't imagine reinforcing the tip would substantially change the dynamic cutting properties, and I think the stouter tip will be of immense value.
Good luck! |
Thanks and all the input is very helpful and like you said it's not that I wouldn't like it it's that I will probably like the stouter point better.   I also don't mind a reasonable wait of 2 to 4 months.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jonathan Blair
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| Posted: Wed 03 Sep, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: |
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From: Clyde Hollis
To: Jonathan Blair
Posted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 9:36 am
Subject: Re: Generation 2 Henry V Sword
Jonathan Blair wrote:
"Clyde,
"Any word on the fix for the bent tip issue on the Henry V? I want to make sure it has been addressed and fixed before I would order one, as I would hate to send it back if defective.
"Jonathan Blair
They are working on it and it will be probably here in November.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 04 Sep, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a Copy/paste of my e-mail to Ryan in reply to his e-mail after he had a talk with Clyde ( With Ryan's permission ).
I will also Copy/paste Ryans first e-mail to me when I asked about the sword.
| Quote: | Ryan;
O.K. let's go ahead with the purchase as is as in part I'm curious to see it first hand and I trust that the point looks reasonably " normal ".
Certainly if I had both versions to look at and they where both available right now I might pick the reinforced tip ? But then again, maybe the handling would be the deciding factor ? But one must be able to make a decision ....... LOL.
Many seem to think I should wait for the reinforced tip version ? ....... At worse I could always buy that one later.
Cheers, and thanks.
Jean
P.S. I also assume that the guard is strait as someone mentioned that a few that they have seen where a bit askew ?
On 08-09-04, at 17:06, Kult Of Athena wrote:
Jean,
I was able to talk to Clyde about this and verified that the reinforced ones will not be out until at least November. He also lead me to believe that the one Mike had may have been thinner in the tip than most of the production ones out now. Judging from the ones we have here, that makes sense to me. I really don't see a problem with the tips on the ones here, other than they are not "over done" as discussed previously. Clyde also said that no one has wanted to return any of these ones yet. Just let me know how you would like us to proceed and we'll take care of it. Feel free to post this information if you'd like. I would, but I know it would take me a long time to get around to it.
Thanks
Ryan Whittlinger
www.KultOfAthena.com |
Here is the Copy/paste of his first reply before he talked to Clyde:
| Quote: |
On 08-09-02, at 13:43, Kult Of Athena wrote:
Jean,
I think the ones we have came from Gen2's first shipment of these swords. It is very unlikely that the issue could be corrected this quickly and I'd expect it to be closer to late October before newer versions are available. I will contact Clyde directly to see if this is the case or if the ones we have are already corrected. Once I get official word I'll let you know as well. Having looked at the sword myself, I'll offer my opinion. The tip is indeed tapered, but honestly it does not look like it would be as big of a problem as it would seem. The tip is no thinner than the Arms & Armor version. Gen2 items tend to be a bit "over done" to achieve their strength and durability, so it would seem that they just did not leave the tip thick enough to get that characteristic strength. I'm sure the newer versions will provide stronger tips but once again at the cost of additional weight. This has always been Gen2's struggle, to provide swords that hold up to abuse like a beater, but don't weigh like one, so it's a fine line. This sword as it is, looks to be nicely done, but the tip may not be what is expected from a Gen2. I wouldn't venture to say that it's bad, just different. I see the difference as regular vs. reinforced point, rather than simply bad vs. good point. I did some flex tests and did not have a problem. The sword performed as it should with no bending or breaking. I would personally not see a problem with the tip as it is. I think the bending Mike Arledge experienced was a combo of the thinner tip in addition to a poor temper. Clyde probably wants to error on the side of strength and will have the factory reinforce it to be safe, rather than just hope it was a one time problem. Quite honestly, I think that if Mike had not experienced this problem, no one would have an issue with the tip of this blade. At least judging by the one I've inspected here, the tip is quite adequate. We can certainly hold your order until the new version is available if you would like, just let me know what you would prefer. We can also cancel and refund it, as there is not much sense in you paying for it now when they may not come in for another 1-2 months. Once I can speak to Clyde I'll have a better idea of when to expect the new ones.
Thanks
Ryan Whittlinger
www.KultOfAthena.com |
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 04 Sep, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Just to add that I may be taking a chance that I might not like it but it's not a $1500 sword and I could and would buy the heavier point later if it seems like a better sword design to me " after " we actually see what the new version looks like.
At worse, and if I get the new version, this current sword could become a " home " project and I could modify the tip if it does do something unfortunate like bend. 
In any case I have a lot of confidence in Ryan's opinion but I take full responsibility for going through with the purchase. 
I may do some light flex testing but I'm not going to do any destructive testing on it or try to ram it through a steel covered door!
If I want an armour piercing sword I will go for a type XVII like the Albion Sempach .
( Oh, and I do appreciate the advice to wait for the next production run and it was almost a flip of a coin decision ).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Fri 05 Sep, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Latest from Ryan:
| Quote: | Ok, it's shipping out. I checked a few and selected you the one with the thickest point, they did vary a bit. Crooked guards would not be considered normal and would be rejected.
Thanks
Ryan Whittlinger
www.KultOfAthena.com |
Another good thing about Kult of Athena is that they give some personal attention to an order if one needs it and they don't just ship from the manufacturer without looking at the products, they also seem to reject any flawed products.
( Obviously a $9.99 wall hanger won't be evaluated the same way with the same criteria than a midrange or higher range product meant to be usable and safe).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 10 Sep, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Just got it this morning and had a quick look at it and it does look pretty good for the price: The slight imperfections in the grind lines do make it look more like a period made sword than the more modern aesthetics of machine made perfection, and would seem perfect for a little " antiquing " and creating an artificial patina.
Might blue the guard and pommel like I did with the Dordogne.
The point looks O.K. and I did some light flex testing and the point seems to bend the way it should if the sword has a good temper over it's whole length including the point. The point seems about the same thickness as my Albion Sovereign so that is also reassuring.
One thing I might change is that the handle is a little thick and too round: I may re-do the leather wrap after I thin down the wood handle and make it a bit more oval and smaller. The handling which feels already good might be better with the thinner handle. I think the sword is nice enough as is, but it does have a lot of potential for DIY improvements that would make it look very period.
Oh, the scabbard is very functional and fits perfectly at least with mine.
Out of the box it's a very aggressive paper cutter and it seems to handle well: The thicker point version might have more presence but that would be more forward balanced. ( Too much presence ? Depends on what one likes ).
The thicker point should be better against armour, but as a side sword or riding sword, I think this version's point is O.K. as long as the specific sword one has is properly heat treated like mine seems to be.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Julien M
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| Posted: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone have any updates concerning the second batch of generation2 Henry V sword with the reinforced tip? I've read a post from Gen 2 somewhere (think it was on sword buyer) saying that those would be available in November.
Cheers,
J
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David Sutton
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| Posted: Sun 22 Feb, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to resurrect this slightly dead thread
Seconding Julien M, does anyone have any info about what the state of play is with the improved Gen 2 Henry V?
'Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all'
'To teach superstitions as truth is a most terrible thing'
Hypatia of Alexandria, c400AD
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R Johnson
Location: Kansas City, Kansas Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun 22 Feb, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Just a note; I have the Generation 2 Henry V sword. I purchased mine from Jason at Arms of Valor in August of 2008. It's a good example of the Westminster Abbey original, tight, properly aligned hilt fittings and nicely shaped blade. I have found it to be an excellent cutter and have never had a problem with the tip. However I must add that I have only thrust against relatively soft targets such as water filled milk jugs and large melons. I feel that these types of thrusting targets more closely replicate the human body(excluding bone, of course). thrusting into the creases between armor plate, even if mail or leather were present would not give you the hard resistance found in wood and therein may lie the problem as well. certainly I can see where a tip with too much distal taper could be a problem, I have experienced no such problem with mine.
I'm not sure the tip was meant to be thrust against hard targets. just my .02 worth.
Paratus Et Fidelis
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Julien M
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| Posted: Mon 23 Feb, 2009 2:43 am Post subject: |
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I have ordered and received mine from Arms of valor as well. I've been unlucky though and I got a slightly defective sword. Jason is working to solve the issue at the moment so I won't comment on that...as long as it is taken care of I'm fine with it.
The tip issue has been fixed a long time ago according to Jason. Gen2 hasn't communicated much on that and I think it's a shame since a lot of us were waiting for confirmation that the issue was solved to order.
To me the sword has it's pros and cons...with some home customisation, most of the cons should be adressed quiet easily though, as they are all aesthetical concerns. In terms of performance, all that was said about this sword has proven right so far: It's a mighty cutter indeed, and at that price range, you get a true edge geometry with no secondary bevel. The tip seems to be sound...but I haven't put it through much so far (carboard is no challenge for a sword shaped like that).
I'll probably write a proper review of this sword soon.
Cheers,
Julien
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David Sutton
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| Posted: Tue 24 Feb, 2009 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I've been tempted by this sword since I first saw the prototypes but the problem with the fine tip was concerning me.
It looks like an excellent piece for the price (in fact I'd say it looks closer to the original sword than the A & A version in many respects - BTW has anyone else thought this?) and has had some rave reviews; baring the obvious issues that it has had with the tip.
'Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all'
'To teach superstitions as truth is a most terrible thing'
Hypatia of Alexandria, c400AD
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Tue 24 Feb, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| David Sutton wrote: | | It looks like an excellent piece for the price (in fact I'd say it looks closer to the original sword than the A & A version in many respects - BTW has anyone else thought this?) and has had some rave reviews; baring the obvious issues that it has had with the tip. |
I owned the A&A version and was sent a Gen2 version (with bad tip) for review. I wouldn't say the Gen2 is closer in "many" respects. It's good, but both versions (even A&A's hollow-ground version) have plenty of differences from the original. It's closer in some ways and farther in others.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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