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Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Cold Steel Waster Reply to topic
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Reece Nelson




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Cold Steel Waster         Reply with quote

Has anyone handled cold steel European wasters?

Cold steel has a new line of European wasters made of polypropylene, and claim to be unbreakable.

http://budk.com/product.asp?pn=46%20CS92BKHNH...id=SPLID01
http://budk.com/product.asp?pn=17%20CS92BKD&a...id=SPLID01

wanted to see what you're thoughts were.
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Steven H




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Last I heard they hadn't shipped yet. They are listed on that site as shipping 5/22.

So nobody knows much about them.

That being said I hope they do work well; they would be great tool.

Cheers,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Fri 01 May, 2009 2:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I will be getting a couple of these to try out since having one won't tell you much: If used with/against a wooden waster it might not work well just because of the mismatch of wood against polypropylene.

Against a steel blunt even worse mismatch.

If it slides well in the bind or winding, aren't to stiff or to rigid and are closer in feel to steel on steel, only trying them will tell.

If they are no better than wood in handling but no worse but are more durable and near indestructible then maybe they will be worth it ? (If they hold their shape and don't warp like wood can and certainly no worries about getting a bad splinter like wood if damaged ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Bill Hickey




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PostPosted: Fri 15 May, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I recently ordered and received a black plastic longsword waster from Cold Steel.



I don't have an accurate way to weigh the sword, but to my hand it feels a bit lighter than my Albion Crecy. However, it has more blade presence with its point of balance around 9" from the center of the cross guard -- as opposed to the Crecy which balances around 4" from the center of the cross guard.



It comes in three pieces. The blade through to the pommel is one piece. The cross guard is fitted over the blade and pushed firmly into place at the handle. And lastly there is a thick rubber band that fits snugly over the blade to hold the cross guard in place.



The whole thing feels very solid and robust. The handle thickness is a bit more than the Crecy, but nicely shaped. The material has been molded to provide some friction to the grip, but as a polycarbonate it is considerably more slippery than leather.

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Ed S.




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PostPosted: Fri 15 May, 2009 4:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I own one of their bokens and it is really a great buy for the price (about $20.00 from Kult of Athena). If these are made using the same methods, I am sure that they are *very* durable. If only they had a one handed sword...
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Steven H




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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 1:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill, do these have an 'edge'? Or are they entirely rounded on the edges? I'm not sure from looking at the picture. And as someone looking at these as a practice tool an edge would be at cross purposes to my use.

Thanks,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Ed S.




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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They do taper to a rounded edge, i.e., they are not flat on the sides, but the 'edge' is not sharp either.
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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now that these are shipping, I might try to get my longsword interested people to purchase these instead of the feder by Hanwei (which are 3 times the expense).

M.

This space for rent or lease.
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Bill Hickey




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PostPosted: Mon 18 May, 2009 11:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They don't have what I'd call an edge. They are rounded over from the full thickness of the blade with just a slight "edge" where the two rounded surfaces meet.



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Steven H




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PostPosted: Mon 18 May, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the details.

Now I'd love to hear from someone who's also handled one of the nylon wasters. 'Cause if these are comparable for half the price then that is great.

Thanks,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Sa'ar Nudel




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PostPosted: Tue 19 May, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a group here with 20 Cold Steel synthetic bokens they use extensively for full contact drills (not for sparring - they WILL shatter bones). I can hardly wait to put my hands on the new waster, weight is supposed to be appr. 1kg, somewhat light for a longsword but heavier than most wooden wasters though. Weight distribution should also be checked. As for durability, these things will probably last forever.
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Bill Love




PostPosted: Sat 30 May, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Cold Steel Waster         Reply with quote

I picked one up last week, and so far, I like it. I haven't used it against another one yet, but my guess is that impacts won't be quite as rough on my hands as they are with wood. It is weighted better than a regular waster, IMHO.
"History is a set of lies agreed upon."
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Ed S.




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PostPosted: Sat 30 May, 2009 5:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just got my hand and a half in the mail last week. It is very nice, especially when the price is taken into consideration. It is a bit heavy for my tastes, but that is not a reflection on the waster itself but more a reflection on my ability to spar with a two-handed weapon. I usually practice with smaller, one-handed wasters.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun, 2009 10:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just got them and since I bought two I can test how they feel against each other: First impressions are that they slide on each other very well and might compare favourably to steel. There is more flex across the flats than in line with the edges as a steel sword compared to the uniform rigidity of wood wasters.

Still rigid enough that they are wood substitutes and one shouldn't train with them as if they were rubber and they are not meant to flail away without good control as with steel or wood as I think these things could break bones.

I will be showing them to my longsword director and if he wants/allows me to try them we might use them tonight or later this week: In any case we will probably test them in informal free exchanges or light bouting to see how they handle, compared to steel or wood and if they hold up to impact ( I assume that they are near indestructible thought. Wink except that they might not play well with steel blunts, mixed with wood wasters might be O.K. but the optimum is to buy them in pairs.

Also, got the daggers.

Will come back to this Topic to give my personal and my director's opinion on them after a bit of use: We might like them right away or it might take a while to really test them to see if they help in simulating steel sharps as well or better than wooden wasters + durability.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Nathan Gilleland




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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quick question somewhat related to this topic:

How might the plastic take painting? For inexpensive background props in an indy film, they look like they might fit the bill, but the black color might be an issue.

Might anyone know if they intend to make a single hander anytime soon? I would be very interested in something like that. Especially at the price point that these have compared to other nylon wasters.

I am likewise interested in their durability vs. price vs. handling.

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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2009 5:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Gilleland wrote:
Quick question somewhat related to this topic:

How might the plastic take painting? For inexpensive background props in an indy film, they look like they might fit the bill, but the black color might be an issue.


I'm not sure but polypropylene might not be the easiest thing to paint and not have the pain flake off as these do flex a bit.
( Maybe a search on line for polypropylene, painting ? might give results as to which paints might work ? )

Aluminium paint ? Might work but the swords would have to be very VERY far back in background.

Making wooden swords not meant for contact could be carved to look a lot more realistic in background than these?

Oh, and back to the use of these I used them yesterday and they do slide in binds and windings in a very slippery way that is closer to steel than wood wasters and durability seems at first use to not be an issue.

May take numerous practice sessions to know if I like the feel of these better than wood but first impressions are good when used in matched pairs. ( Didn't try mixing these with wooden wasters, but they should be O.K. but not as good since the wood and the plastic have different bending qualities i.e. plastic bends on the flats, wooden waster don't, so the feel of these mixed might feel odd ).

One point though even if they look like plastic or rubber swords they are no safer than wood and are not meant for full force bouting without the same safety protocols one would use with wood in my opinion and one should be careful of untrained people picking these up and hitting each other because they perceive them as " rubber/plastic " swords.

I didn't find them heavy but a training partner did think they seemed heavier to him.

The handles are shorter than many longswords and are more of warsword/bastard sword length and the pommel is very polygonal with prominent ridges that some might not like if they use the pommel for their off hand. ( Didn't bother me, but I did notice ! A good leather glove does make a difference here ).

Bottom line a very viable alternative to wooden wasters but some may really like these and some may not, the feel is different ( Needs getting used to ) from wood on wood and different from steel blunts but they do feel closer to steel as far as sliding in the bind or winding at the sword than wood.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Bill Love




PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2009 11:32 am    Post subject: Cold Steel Waster         Reply with quote

Nathan,

Painting them might end up being messy-that material isn't known for holding paint well. If you could find a primer that etched the plastic without dissolving it then maybe, but my guess is that the end result wouldn't be very durable. If you want to really go whole hog, you'll probably get better results by making a mold of the waster and casting it in silver plastic or resin.

"History is a set of lies agreed upon."
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Jul, 2009 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: Cold Steel Waster         Reply with quote

Reece Nelson wrote:
Has anyone handled cold steel European wasters?

Cold steel has a new line of European wasters made of polypropylene, and claim to be unbreakable.


I like them.

About 875g, very blade-heavy, balance about 22cm from the cross, which seems to be an OK combination when sparring - they aren't lightweight plastic whips, but light enough for reasonable speed without needing much power.

The very tips are too pointy out of the box (well, out of the plastic bag), but a quick scrape against concrete (or a bit of filing) to remove about 2mm leaves them fine for my tastes.

Price is OK. (Especially compared to what I can get good wooden wasters for - the "bokken" (propylene-ken?) is about 50% more than the cheap known-to-be-durable bokken around here, but there is less choice in longsword wasters.)

Safer than wood, with no danger of splintered or sharp ends from breakages.

Easy to modify - all you need is a saw and a file to take one down to whatever length length is preferred (I haven't done this to one of the longswords yet, but I have shortened the "bokken").

I don't like the pommel. Too pointy for me (a little uncomfortable with bare hands, better with gloves), so I plan to modify a pommel or 2. I'll live with this feature, given the lack of an alternative. I'd also like about an inch or two more handle, or a different, more grippable pommel. I might try some modifications later.

The blade is not long, 34" by the specs. Given the ease of cutting these down to a desired length, and the difficulty of adding to the length of one, a little longer would be nice.

Overall, although I'm repeating myself, I like them. I agree with what others have posted about their experience with them. A "better" pommel, 36"+12"=48", balanced no further out, a bit closer in if heavier, and I wouldn't had anything to complain about at all.
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Dave Smith




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Jul, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I modified mine a bit. I cut the handle a couple inches down from the guard and made a hickory spacer. I then drilled a 3/8 hole about 2.5 inches into the upper portion of the handle, 3 inches into the lower portion, then drilled all the way through the spacer. After that, I threaded the holes thanks to my handy-dandy tap and die set (everyone should have one... very cheap at harbor freight), and inserted a threaded 3/8 steel rod from Lowe's. I also used a generous amount of JB Weld on all connections. to cover up the modifications, I covered the grip in some gray leather I'd had laying around. So far, it seems to be 100% as solid as the original. We'll see if that stays true...lol

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae121/rykk...0_0632.jpg

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Last edited by Dave Smith on Sun 05 Jul, 2009 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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L. Clayton Parker




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Jul, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for starting this thread, all my bokken are cracked and I was about to order more (wood) ones. I did not know that there even were poly ones!

I may order a couple of wasters also. Wonder if they could do some poly targes?

They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh, because of fear in the night. -The Song of Songs, Which Is Solomon's
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