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David McElrea
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 Posted: Mon 31 May, 2004 3:31 pm Post subject: Viking Weapons-- some observations from a museum |
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Hi all,
I just got back from two weeks in Norway. I managed to take some time in the Kulturhistorisk Museum, which was very rewarding.
They had a decent collection of weapons ranging from the Stone Age through to the Viking Age. With regards to the Viking swords...
1) I am always amazed at the way photos never do justice to the size of the actual swords  It seems as though, in my mind, they shrink... then I see these "monster" weapons behind the glass.
2) The single-edged swords (a la Albion's Berserkr) were far more common than I imagined-- at least in the West of Norway. These swords represented about a fifth of the blades on show (I would guess).
Another unrelated observation would be that the lighting and glass casings seem to be meticulously set to defeat my camera. It's digital, so I managed to get some ok shots, but not of very good quality.
I'd like to throw in a question as well. The museum had a recreation of a Viking Axe (photo below)-- it was hafted very differently from most offerings I have seen on retailers' websites, and I am wondering as to the historicity of it. Essentially it has a curve to it somewhat like that of a modern wood-cutting axe, rather than a straight haft. Any comments would be appreciated.
David
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 31 May, 2004 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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David,
Glad to hear your trip was rewarding!
Yes, these viking swords can be striking in their prescence... You often hear viking swords were sort of shortish in the blade and smaller than the swords of later periods, but to me most seems rather large even if the blade lenght is somewhat shorter than some swords from the high middle ages.
The axe in the photo seems a bit odd to me. It would be interesting to learn what they used as basis for that reconstruction. Perhaps it is some practical testing from reenactment fighting?
Still, it seems dubious...
It is extremely rare to find a preserved axehaft from the viking period.
I have seen one or two. No curvature.
All depictions in art from the period I know of shows more or less long hafts that are always straight.
-Anyone else with other information?
There is now commercially available a "reconstruction" of a viking period handaxe that is used by campers and woodcarvers alike and this axe is mounted on a very curvacious haft. I think the idea behind this is a result of modern testing, and not any archaeological find. I may be wrong about this...
The axe is very nice and most efficient, both for powerfull chopping and precise cutting. I like this type very much.
In Norway there was in use an axe in military context up till pretty recently. The same axe was also carried by farmers as a badge of status. The haft had a 30 degrees turn just below the head so the edge was turned partly forwards. It looks a bit odd at first, but there might be some advantages:
-The point of gravity is placed closer to the line of the haft.
-The forward corner of the edge becomes almost a spear point (these axe heads are asymmetrical, having their edge inclining downwards at the forward point and pushed forward from the eye of the axe)
-The anlge of the edge might also allow for cutting/slicing, not just a cleaving blow?
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Borger Kruge
Location: Norway Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue 01 Jun, 2004 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Peter Johnsson wrote: |
In Norway there was in use an axe in military context up till pretty recently. |
Dear Peter, if I may. How recent, approximately, do you mean?
Regards, Borger
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 01 Jun, 2004 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Borger Kruge wrote: | | Peter Johnsson wrote: |
In Norway there was in use an axe in military context up till pretty recently. |
Dear Peter, if I may. How recent, approximately, do you mean?
Regards, Borger |
Ohh,
Was it early 18th century? Late 17th C?
I have got the impression these axes fulfilled thesame role as militia weapon in Norway as did the long spiked club in Dalecardia, Sweden. An efficient weapon that also carried some symbolic status.
Am I away on a tangent with these thoughts?
Perhaps you have more precise information?
I´ve been looking through my stacks of papers to find one of these axes, but no success so far. Might you have a good picture you could post?
Best
peter
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David McElrea
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| Posted: Tue 01 Jun, 2004 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Hi Peter,
Thanks for the input-- I had thought the curvature was a bit unusual. It would be interesting to know who made the decision (and why).
I will add a couple of more pics (hopefully of better quality than the previous one-- I thought I had "shrunk" it enough to fit within the text box, as well...).
The first is of one of the single edged swords-- it looks very much like the Berserkr (you are to be commended at reproducing the look so well-- I look forward to seeing it in 3 dimensions someday).
The second is of a hilt-style that I am very partial to-- although I prefer the curved guard as found on the Jarl. Nonetheless, a beautiful piece.
*apparently the first pic-- single edged-- is too large (or at least too "high"). I'll see if I can adjust it a bit and resend later).
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Borger Kruge
Location: Norway Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue 08 Jun, 2004 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Peter wrote: | Ohh,
Was it early 18th century? Late 17th C?
I have got the impression these axes fulfilled thesame role as militia weapon in Norway as did the long spiked club in Dalecardia, Sweden. An efficient weapon that also carried some symbolic status.
Am I away on a tangent with these thoughts?
Perhaps you have more precise information?
I´ve been looking through my stacks of papers to find one of these axes, but no success so far. Might you have a good picture you could post?
Best
peter |
Hi again. I didn't actually have any information at the time when I asked you about the time period. It was just that the word "recently" could mean so much. Later I found a picture from an auction, and remembering your description and timeframe I thought this might be something similar. The object is labelled "Axe, Norwegian A-type, 17th century, iron spike endcap, length 80 cm." I attach a photo. Is this anything like what you mean?
By the way, it goes for 15.000 NOK, ca. 2000 euro...
sincerely,
Borger
Attachment: 4.52 KB
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 08 Jun, 2004 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Borger Kruge wrote: | | Peter wrote: | Ohh,
Was it early 18th century? Late 17th C?
I have got the impression these axes fulfilled thesame role as militia weapon in Norway as did the long spiked club in Dalecardia, Sweden. An efficient weapon that also carried some symbolic status.
Am I away on a tangent with these thoughts?
Perhaps you have more precise information?
I´ve been looking through my stacks of papers to find one of these axes, but no success so far. Might you have a good picture you could post?
Best
peter |
Hi again. I didn't actually have any information at the time when I asked you about the time period. It was just that the word "recently" could mean so much. Later I found a picture from an auction, and remembering your description and timeframe I thought this might be something similar. The object is labelled "Axe, Norwegian A-type, 17th century, iron spike endcap, length 80 cm." I attach a photo. Is this anything like what you mean?
By the way, it goes for 15.000 NOK, ca. 2000 euro...
sincerely,
Borger |
Thanks!
Yes that is it exactly.
Amd a nice one at that.
Seeing these might give us ideas of variations in hafting viing axes, even though evidence seems to suggest only straight hafts.
The head of that axe is similar to some late viking types, both in shape and size.
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Robert B. Marks
Location: Kingston, Ont. Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Sat 12 Jun, 2004 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| David McElrea wrote: | Hi Peter,
Thanks for the input-- I had thought the curvature was a bit unusual. It would be interesting to know who made the decision (and why).
I will add a couple of more pics (hopefully of better quality than the previous one-- I thought I had "shrunk" it enough to fit within the text box, as well...).
The first is of one of the single edged swords-- it looks very much like the Berserkr (you are to be commended at reproducing the look so well-- I look forward to seeing it in 3 dimensions someday).
The second is of a hilt-style that I am very partial to-- although I prefer the curved guard as found on the Jarl. Nonetheless, a beautiful piece.
*apparently the first pic-- single edged-- is too large (or at least too "high"). I'll see if I can adjust it a bit and resend later). |
Hey - that's the sword the Albion Vinland is based on...I recognize the hilt. Was there any information about that particular piece?
(One of the reasons I ask is that Albion is honouring me by allowing me to review one of their Next Generation swords, and it's going to be a Vinland - even now, I'm racing to clear off my debts from my last sword so that I can exercise the option to buy if it comes to that.)
Best regards to all,
Robert Marks
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David McElrea
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| Posted: Sat 12 Jun, 2004 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Robert B. Marks wrote: | Quote: | | Hey - that's the sword the Albion Vinland is based on...I recognize the hilt. Was there any information about that particular piece? |
Hi Robert,
No, as amazing as the collection was, there was a dearth of information-- no dates, no comments on the typology... The only info provided was the find site. While I can't recall the exact location, all weapons were found in Westland/Hordaland (the west of Norway). This particular hilt style is not uncommon, I believe, so I couldn't say if it was this one exactly that inspired the Vinland-- but I thought of it as well when I saw it.
Interestingly they also had a sword with a Type L guard-- It is interesting because Petersen, (I believe?), said that none of these types of guards were found in Norway. Or perhaps it was only in conjunction with Type S hilts, I don't know. If the former, I suppose this one may have been found after he published his work.
Do you have any wisdom on this, Peter? I'll include a pic-- again, not great quality. I have been told that the pommel of this was likely originally a two-piece construction and that we are only seeing the bottom piece. Again, I don't know. If this is the case, I wonder what the top piece would have looked like. I would have assumed the traingular looking one as found on Albion's Hersir, but the one shown in the original post does hearken to the Vinland/Jarl type...
David
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The angle of the shot doesn't manage to show the depth (?) of the curve, but it gives a general idea.
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