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Jeff Stewart
Location: Tonganoxie, KS, USA Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 24
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 Posted: Mon 08 Sep, 2003 9:01 pm Post subject: Questions about my first sword purchase... |
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A quick question:
I've been involved in a small study group for about two months now learning longsword and some light wrestling/dagger maneuvers using wasters. I'm looking into purchasing my first sword and am not really certain what to go with. My budget is pretty slim at the moment so I'm restricted to somewhere around the $300 price range. Since this would be my first sword I want something that will be responsive enough to sharpen my reflexes but also inexpensive enough so that I will be able to practice full kata-like motions without having to fear the inevitable damage of inexperience to the blade. Would anyone know of anything off-hand that would be a good selection for someone in my position?
Also:
Is there any standardized height/weight to sword ratio that I should know about before deciding the type of sword that I purchase? As is, I'm only 5'10" 165lbs and not quite capable of wielding anything larger that 3.5lbs for any length of time.
Thanks!
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Mon 08 Sep, 2003 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds as if Del Tin will probably be the best choice given your price ceiling.
They can be purchased from American dealers like Albion Armorers and Art Elwell (A Work of Art).
www.albionarmorers.com
www.a-work-of-art.net
For a bit more money Arms and Armor offers this very nice training blunt that would do quite nicely:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/2000/catalog/item187.html
Lutel, a company in the Czech Republic, also offers various models of longsword at very reasonable prices. They can also be ordered through Art Elwell. Art doesn't list the Lutels on his website but he does carry them.
www.lutel.cz
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Kurt CQ
Location: Ottawa/Montreal Canada Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon 08 Sep, 2003 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Heimrick swords are an option for training blunts. I have one and it is quite sturdy and well suited for armoured sparring, drills (with fencing mask) and solo practice. The price is also very good, especially considering the conversion into USD (prices are in Canadian dollars). There is something to be said for a blunt that is slightly heavier as it smoothes out your movements and builds muscle and stamina. My Heimrick blunt is built for armoured fighting and clocks in around 4.5 lbs. Felt heavy when I first got it but now I am used to it. Now whenever I handle my Atrim it feels so light and maneuvarable it is kinda scary. Some blunts are just too light and while they feel nice they will not stand up to the rigours of sparring. If you want a lighter blade for unarmoured and shirt fighting, JP (the sword fabricator, really nice guy) will work with you to come up with something that meets your needs. His address is:
http://heimrick.netfirms.com/catalanglo.htm
or use an aluminum sword if you are strictly interested in unamoured/light armoured fighting (I personally don't like the way these handle but the AEMMA guys love them), but your sparring/training partners must also be using aluminum:
http://www.varmouries.com
Also, Dave Cvet of AEMMA did a review of some of Heimrick's blunts at:
http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/reviews/heimrick/review.html
and and Valentine aluminum blunts at:
http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/reviews/...eview.html
Last edited by Kurt CQ on Mon 08 Sep, 2003 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chris Holzman
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| Posted: Mon 08 Sep, 2003 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: Questions about my first sword purchase... |
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| Jeff Stewart wrote: | A quick question:
I've been involved in a small study group for about two months now learning longsword and some light wrestling/dagger maneuvers using wasters. I'm looking into purchasing my first sword and am not really certain what to go with. My budget is pretty slim at the moment so I'm restricted to somewhere around the $300 price range. Since this would be my first sword I want something that will be responsive enough to sharpen my reflexes but also inexpensive enough so that I will be able to practice full kata-like motions without having to fear the inevitable damage of inexperience to the blade. Would anyone know of anything off-hand that would be a good selection for someone in my position?
Also:
Is there any standardized height/weight to sword ratio that I should know about before deciding the type of sword that I purchase? As is, I'm only 5'10" 165lbs and not quite capable of wielding anything larger that 3.5lbs for any length of time.
Thanks! |
Jeff, where're ya learning longsword at here in Podunk? or are you making a drive down to Jon Eppler's place in Tulsa? I wasn't aware of anything really going on here in KS. The fencing club I'm part of, plus several others, plus 2 kenjutsu dojo, but wasnt aware of anything else (excluding SCAdian stuff).... sounds like fun to me..
Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
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Jeff Stewart
Location: Tonganoxie, KS, USA Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue 09 Sep, 2003 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the feedback guys - it was very helpful. I've decided to go with an over-weighted piece, which I wasn't all that up-for originally, but due to suggestions have changed my mind. A friend let me borrow his first sword which he used to learn on and even though it is too heavy, practicing with it was extremely useful in helping to refine my swing. So I should be ordering my first sword this week.
Thanks again!
Oh, and Chris, I shot you a letter to the email posted in your profile about how to get in contact with the instructor of our group incase you were interested.
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Tue 09 Sep, 2003 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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You're from Tongy Jeff?
I grew up in Bonner Springs!
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Tue 09 Sep, 2003 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff Stewart wrote: | | A friend let me borrow his first sword which he used to learn on and even though it is too heavy, practicing with it was extremely useful in helping to refine my swing. |
Just a quick comment to say that I feel a sword that is too heavy will actually hurt your swing more than help it. I've never subscribed to the notion that training with a heavy sword and then switching to a lighter sword is actually a helpful thing. I believe weight training and muscle building is a completely different training aspect from technique and dynamic movement training. With a sword, it's about technique; and that needs to be taught and learned with the actual tool. Stamina and strength can be built with other exercises.
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Jeff Stewart
Location: Tonganoxie, KS, USA Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Wed 10 Sep, 2003 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | | Just a quick comment to say that I feel a sword that is too heavy will actually hurt your swing more than help it. I've never subscribed to the notion that training with a heavy sword and then switching to a lighter sword is actually a helpful thing. I believe weight training and muscle building is a completely different training aspect from technique and dynamic movement training. With a sword, it's about technique; and that needs to be taught and learned with the actual tool. Stamina and strength can be built with other exercises. |
Could you expand a bit on this if possible?
Some of this I can imagine right off the bat, such as a heavier sword would require that swings be overcompensated to achieve the same effects as if the maneuver were performed with a to-scale weapon. And that these exaggerated swings would probably be recorded as rote skills, conceivably making their application diminished when the rehearsed actions were done with a lighter blade, by possibly decreasing the accuracy of strikes or distorting some other aspect of combat.
On the other hand, much of my practicing alone has been done with no more than an old broomstick. By keeping my imaginary cross in mind, I have been able to rehearse all of the actions I would normally perform with a sword or waster but at a much faster speed. Doing this has not only improved my agility with a sword and caused my right forearm to grow to twice the size of my left, but has also made me fierce with a broomstick (hehe). Obviously a broomstick is much lighter than a sword, but still, in practicing with this poor model I have been able to improve the techniques needed to wield a sword correctly. So, much like the under-weighted broomstick has assisted in developing speed, shouldn't the heavier version then be able to assist in developing power? Wouldn't it just be the sword equivalent of runners wearing ankle-weights? Or would it, as suggested, just hurt technique?
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 10 Sep, 2003 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Nathan was suggesting that a heavier sword was completely usless.
He is correct, however, in that a sword of proper weight and design is neccesary in order to gain a full understanding of a given sword and its use. Tools such as broomsticks and weighted swords will only take you so far. A broomstick won't given you an understanding of things such as edge alignment and grip position. A weighted sword may indeed build muscular tone and endurance, it will not give you an understanding of the swords dynamics and employment.
What kind of sword are you planning on purchasing? There is a fairly wide variance in terms of weight, in any type of sword. If this is going to be a singular purchase you'll be better off in the long run if you purchase the proper tool for the task right away.
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 10 Sep, 2003 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm in agreement with Nathan: Training only with a heavy sword will result in overcompensating with a lighter one.
That said, in the long run I believe it is best to use multiple training tools, and a heavy sword is one of them. Once you have a good understanding of proper technique with a realistic handling sword, a heavier one can sometimes be substituted for strength training.
For your first sword, though, I'm a believer in getting one that handles like the real thing so that you understand it's capabilities right away.
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Felix Wang
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| Posted: Wed 10 Sep, 2003 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Two options:
For Aluminum swords, David L Baker makes a very nice longsword - I got a chance to play with one this spring. As noted above, don't mix aluminum swords with wood or steel; but aluminum swords are relatively safe, and inexpensive (Baker's is $185, last I checked). They also behave more like steel than anything that isn't steel.
Just above the upper end of your price range, you ought to think about Angus Trim swords. You can find a wide range of these at All Saint's Blades; some of the longswords are in the range of $ 350 to $400. Atrims swords are designed to perform as a sword should, and are easy to handle. I weigh less than 165, at the same height of 5' 10". The swords are sharp by default - are you looking for a blunt or a sharp? Blunts can be used for partner practice and bouting, of course; but sharp is the "natural" state of a sword and is better for cutting.
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Jeff Stewart
Location: Tonganoxie, KS, USA Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu 11 Sep, 2003 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I’ve been giving this a lot of thought, pulling from my limited pool of experience and the suggestions/comments that have been given, and am almost certain now as to what I should do. My first inclination was to purchase MRL’s German bastard sword (#1-528), as I have practiced with this replica many times and have enjoyed using it, and to just add weights to a waster for strength training. The more feedback I get the more I think that this idea wasn’t really such a bad one to begin with. This option fits my current financial limitations and offers me a more accurate method to train with. I’ve not been too interested in aluminum and decided a while back that when I get a blunt I will just purchase another copy of the sword that I usually practice with and turn that into a blunt - with the price of #1-528 this can easily be done without the worries of altering a sword. If anyone has had any negative/positive experiences with this piece or heard anything about it please share.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback and for helping my decision to better informed.
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This is a standard topic