[Kirk Lee Spencer]

If you have seen any of my DIY project threads, you know I'm always looking for really inexpensive production swords that can be taken apart and made better. And when I learned the Hanwei Saxon Sword had a true pattern-welded core almost identical to the original Gilling West sword and all the dimensions were within DIY range of the original Gilling West sword it became irresitable, especially at the price.

I have taken my Hanwei Saxon Sword apart so I know how it’s put together. The guard is very deeply milled (or more likely cast) to seat the blade. The grip core is wood which has been glued, sandwich style, around the tang.

The “silver” collars (non magnetic… probably nickel plate) are then slipped over the wood core and glued into place. Then the strips of leather are glued between the collars onto the wood core.

Then the pommel was slipped over the tang and over the end of the wood core. The bottom of the pommel is cast with a large round inset with a very snug fit over the end of the wooden grip core. Though not authentic, it certainly acts to hold the grip core together and keep the pommel from turning. This whole assembly is epoxied into place.

Finnally the peen block was screwed onto the threaded end of the tang and also epoxied in place. Then the very end of the tang was peened over the round donut shaped peen block (steel)… As you might imagine, this is a very sturdy configuration. I suspect this hilt will put up with a lot of abuse. It certainly put up with a lot of abuse from me trying to get it apart.

ks

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

Not sure what the guard and pommel are made of. It appears that they have been cast with all the detail of the “silver” strips and plaques of the original cast onto the surface. Also the guard and pommel are only slightly magnetic, though they seem to have roughly the same density as steel. So they are something heavy, only slightly magnetic and can be cast (stainless?).

Here are the measurements I have taken:

Overall Length: 87cm
Blade Length: 71cm
Max Width: 52mm
Grip Length: 100mm
COG: 17cm
Weight: 3.2 lbs
Thickness: 6.2mm (at forte), 5mm (10cm from the tip) then quick taper to point.
[This explains the weight and Cog]

Hope this new info helps you understand the value of this new offering from Hanwei.

take care

ks

[Nathan Robinson]

This topic has turned out to be a source of excellent info and great ideas!

[Jean Thibodeau]

I'm very impressed with the design of the blade shoulder transition at an angle + a good radius where the tang narrows.

Don't know if the tang was like this on the original ( Doesn't matter much since one wouldn't see it anyway unless one takes the sword apart ) but structurally I always like good design.

A long way from a rat tail tang in a very good way.

Although it might be better if the monosteel was complete and formed the point I wonder if the twisted core's harness and edge holding is pretty much the same as the monosteel edge ? It would depend in part on the heat treatment and carbon content of the twisted core bars ...... 3 possible hardness here with 1) The monosteel 2) Twisted bar (a) 3) Twisted bar (b), assuming that the carbon content is different in the bars used in the twisted pattern steel.

In any case seeing the construction and now being sure that the pattern is " real " and not just faked etching this sword become very appealing at the very modest price.

[Chad Arnow]

Kirk,
Great info. It's hard to tell but it almost looks like there's a weld line between where you etched and the tang, as if the pattern-welded part is welded to the tang. Does the pattern welding extend up the tang? If not, any worries about the quality of the weld?

[Patrick Kelly]

Kirk, your projects are always outstanding, so I'm eager to see what you come up with here.

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

[Scott Hrouda]

Kirk,

I'm betting you were one of those kids that liked to take all your toys apart to see what's on the inside, just like you did with the Hanwei Saxon.

I understand you are using this blade for a project piece, but I don't think I'd have the guts to rip it apart as you did. The photographs and information you have provided will be invaluable to others considering purchasing this blade.

When the Saxon was first released, I was a little harsh in a particular thread on this forum. It seems to me that the blade and tang are well constructed from your photographs. Thanks to you, I'm a little wiser and probably shouldn't shoot my mouth off until I fully know what I'm talking about.

Regards,

Scott

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

[Donald L]

Wow Kirk, this is a wealth of info!

I haven't had the time to do some cautious testing and you go and disassemble the whole weapon! The reactions to the etchant looks good, so I'll have no qualms with redoing mine.

As for the lack of tip wrap of the homogeneous steel: I think it's fine based on two points... The "fake Damascus" (my words) that is commonly used for higher end knife blades often is a steel/nickel mix-or high C and low C steels- and these pieces will have multiple metals layered/mixed going down to the cutting edges. Of course, I guess I'm citing the Hanwei Godfred among thousands of other blades too.

The other thing is that Hanwei also produces something called the "Ming Sword" which is a jian with a fully PW blade. This weapon was what initially made me realize the $$$ gamble on the Saxon might be worth it. I am of the thought that the core of the Saxon is the same formulation as the Ming's totally PW'ed blade. Arguably, at least, the Saxon might benefit from the experimenting/growth pains of producing the Ming sword.

Yeah, the more I examine this weapon, and especially after seeing Kirk's wonderful pictures of it's autopsy, I am of the thought that this is an incredible buy-if only to harvest the blade for another project. Yes, I am also of the opinion to hand distal taper the blade some more, though I don't think I'll do a total scratch-mod like Kirk is... I am much more of a sword user than a remodifier (except of course for all those Windlass buys in my distant past).

Thanks for the autopsy Kirk!

[Bruce Tordoff]

Hi Kirk,
firstly, echoing others sentiments, thanks for a very informative review.
I am looking for a PW blade for my speculative Vendel 1 project. But I'm in the unfortunate situation of not being able to afford the £1000 and upwards price tag of the usual fare.
So this sounds like a very viable alternative. I suspect that as I will be fitting a flat cross guard assembly that I will be grinding the 'shoulder' of the blade somewhat. I may even go down far enough to get rid of the 'ricasso' area, so the fuller dissappears into the crossguard. I could just extend the fuller up a bit, so as not to lose any blade length.
It is a shame that the monosteel edge does not start 'around' the tip. But If I leave this unetched, I could live with it for that price.
I will be emailing Hanwei, to see if I can get the blade on its own, and hopefully reduce the cost even more.
If I'd just won the lottery, then, hey, I'd be keeping Patrick Barta in business till retirement, but sadly, not the case.
But hey, Make do and mend!
Cheers,
Bruce

[J. Kari]

[Luka Borscak]

A lot of posts since I last posted here. I'm very glad to see all these experiments, because the results of mine were somewhat worrying, but only because it was definite. I went to a my local smith and we dipped the final maybe 2" of the blade in the acid and the pattern appeared, but I wasn't completely satisfied because I realized the patterning is to the tip and wider than the fuller near the tip so I thought the whole blade is pattern welded without monosteel edges welded. Now when I saw this pictures I realized the patterned core is wider than the fuller at the tip, but not wider than the fuller at the base, so that means that there are monosteel edges welded on, just the patterned core doesn't taper with the fuller... All in all, this is all very satisfying and I now feel that this blade IS worth enough for a complete customizing, but unlike Kirk, I want be customizing it along the Gilling sword lines, but in a completely new style, probably early 9th century B or H hilt. I will also sooner or later buy a bare blade, if that will be possible, for a vendel style ringhilt sword.

[Bruce Tordoff]

Luka,
Yes, the more info that has been posted on this thread, the more attractive a proposition this sword is.
Glad to hear you also have plans for a Vendel ringsword. Would be nice to compare projects in the future.
What I like about this sword is the blade seems to be a decent size. It looks about right for my project.
Cheers,
Bruce

[Shahril Dzulkifli]

That sword had an impressive blade. I really appreciate it.

[David Clark]

Arise Chicken, ARISE!

I was just wondering about two things:
How did Kirk's sword remodel go? and did anyone ever hear from Hanwei as to whether is offering the blade by itself?

[Luka Borscak]

It's difficult to know anything about what Hanwei can offer now because they had that fire in their factory in China so I think at the moment they don't produce anything. And who knows when will they start producing and what will than happen with their offerings... Anyway, I'm still very satisfied with my Saxon, I got the custom hilt for it, brass inlayed type H hilt, historical 2 piece construction. You can see it on the first page of this thread:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...mp;start=0
And yes, if I could get another Saxon for a lower price, or just a blade, I would buy it for another custom project, probably Vendel type hilt...

[William P]

hmm this sword is in my local sword shop and im liking the look of it more and more,
doesnt seem unreasonable that you could take the various bits and put together a beter sword like what bruce suggested,

looking at the patrick barta sword it seems like you could just put a new wooden grip on it and reshape the wood as needed. otherwise the saxon sword seems pretty darn good.

[Kirk Lee Spencer]