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Randall Moffett
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 Posted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Another good indication of out dated armours in use is in the Register of Prince Edward. In 1358 and 1359 he gives away loads of older and unneeded armour to his friends and retainers. Royal hand-me-downs if you will.
They show up quite often. The close, patent and misc. inquisitions of England have fairly common occurences of older armour in use as well.
RPM
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Paul Hansen
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| Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jonathan Blair wrote: | Speaking as a Living Historian, it behooves us to have a kit that is dated to within a decade of our timeframe. This is because the public nearly always has a Hollywood idea of history.
It just confuses the public, who may remember all of 2% of what you tell them and that likely incorrectly, and we try to teach the most accurately known information. |
I think that this depends on the public, but on the other hand, you don't have to accommodate the public completely.
I mean, if you want to make a reenactment comprehensible for the most stupid and uneducated people, it will look like Xena Warrior Princess with the good guys wearing white and the baddies black.
On the other hand, if you are doing something for an expert audience, then if everybody from all walks of life has kits dated to a specific decade, you are also missing the mark, in my opinion.
For instance, if you want to portray American soldiers in Vietnam, it would not be wrong to equip a few guys with AK-47's, even though it was not an officially issued weapon. On the other hand, if everybody would just wear standard issue kit in perfect condition, then the overall portrayal would perhaps technically be correct, but it would still not give an accurate picture of the period.
To me, a stupid audience is not a good reason to deviate from reality. But of course there are various facets to reality. If everybody portrays the same type of soldier, then it may become a bit easier to avoid this problem.
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Paul Hansen"] | Jonathan Blair wrote: | | I mean, if you want to make a reenactment comprehensible for the most stupid and uneducated people, it will look like Xena Warrior Princess with the good guys wearing white and the baddies black. |
Hehe, that's turned out to be small problem for our Hospitallers group. Kids fear us because we wear black. They assume we're "bad guys". We have dubbed this "the black knight effect" 
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul Hansen wrote: |
For instance, if you want to portray American soldiers in Vietnam, it would not be wrong to equip a few guys with AK-47's, even though it was not an officially issued weapon. On the other hand, if everybody would just wear standard issue kit in perfect condition, then the overall portrayal would perhaps technically be correct, but it would still not give an accurate picture of the period.
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This above is very much in the spirit of what I was thinking about that the true period picture is not a clean and neat one.
I remember when I was a little kid and already interested about arms and armour I couldn't imagine anyone but a German ( Military or in civilian life ) would own or use a Luger Pistol: To my simple child's mind only a German could or would use a German pistol ..... everything had to be consistent, black and white and neatly separated.
In WWII there are some cases of captured Sherman tanks being used by the Germans as well as captured Russian tanks.
As well I think the Americans used captured German tanks occasionally. ( This may have been rare and sort of short duration expedient use of captured stuff often perceived correctly as better than the issue weapons. This happened much more with the smaller stuff like pistols, submachine guns, machine guns for various reasons including using captured ammo. With the larger stuff like a tank the logistical problems of keeping them in good repair becomes more difficult as well as the dangers of friendly fire ).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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David Evans
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| Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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If you look at the records of musters for Trained Bands in England during the 1580's and 1590's you see a mix of Almain rivet, skulls, jacks, coat of plates and corslets in terms of armour recorded. That throws up a mental image of armed men who'd fit in any battle line from Flodden to Nieuwpoort.
Cost is an issue that is often ignored. Why spend more money when there is perfectly good armour available that is still acceptable for use?
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William P
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| Posted: Mon 18 Jul, 2011 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Paul Hansen wrote: |
For instance, if you want to portray American soldiers in Vietnam, it would not be wrong to equip a few guys with AK-47's, even though it was not an officially issued weapon. On the other hand, if everybody would just wear standard issue kit in perfect condition, then the overall portrayal would perhaps technically be correct, but it would still not give an accurate picture of the period.
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This above is very much in the spirit of what I was thinking about that the true period picture is not a clean and neat one.
I remember when I was a little kid and already interested about arms and armour I couldn't imagine anyone but a German ( Military or in civilian life ) would own or use a Luger Pistol: To my simple child's mind only a German could or would use a German pistol ..... everything had to be consistent, black and white and neatly separated.
In WWII there are some cases of captured Sherman tanks being used by the Germans as well as captured Russian tanks.
As well I think the Americans used captured German tanks occasionally. ( This may have been rare and sort of short duration expedient use of captured stuff often perceived correctly as better than the issue weapons. This happened much more with the smaller stuff like pistols, submachine guns, machine guns for various reasons including using captured ammo. With the larger stuff like a tank the logistical problems of keeping them in good repair becomes more difficult as well as the dangers of friendly fire ). |
and of course lets not forget the thousands of russian boots and uniforms scavanged by germans at stalingrad.
and a good example of that sort of mismatching would be represented by the reenactor thats tight for money.. im a good example i repersent fairly early varangian guardsmen i.e pre 1100 my helm is rus 10-11th C my sword is VERY late viking/ early norman with a tea cos pommel. my shield is a typical viking roundashield.
my gambeson on the other hand is sheepishly probably of a later century, having a pattern nessentially like a modern jacket with simple tube sleeves etc
BUT thats all i could get with my budget, to get a accuratebyzantine style gambeson would be damn near impossible. and im HOPELESS with a needle
and even among my group, were not identically clad in rus helms and lamellar. a few have period appropriate rus/ eastern european sabres. two have 3 lobed pommel viking swords another has occasionally used a byzantine spathos thats of those members i can remember. some ofus use splinted metal vambraces, another uses solid leather armguards that extend almost to the elbow. some have roundshields some have almond shields. some own both.
a couple have rus helms one has a spectacle helm.
I myself was using a arguably norman spangenhelm for ages with a very extensive aventail that was lent to me unil i bought my own helm
when your very tight for money you borrow, modify and scrap together things as much as possible.
so right now im just getting what works and what at leeast LOOKS semiclose to my period. thoughmy fellow members know and have old me exactly where my kit might be off
soif talking to the public ill indicate the other more convincingly dressed members as reference.. for now anyway.
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