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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep, 2003 6:51 pm    Post subject: New Direction re Dawg and Teastrainers         Reply with quote

As of a week ago, my only real interests with the various baskets, was that they would work well for handprotection re sidesword action.....

Over the last year, I had sidestepped Mac, Alex McCracken, and one other individual about mounting an Eljay basket on one of my blades, several times........

That's all changed.......

Yesterday I received two Eljay Erickson baskets {mid 15th century, Mac has posted photos of the originals several times}. I mounted one of them yesterday eve, on a blade that had been pre- prepped. It felt wonderful, it felt like it would be relatively easy to be convinced to give them nasty Sassenach what for with this sword........

So, today, I would mount an Eljay basket on one of my blades in a somewhat custom way. Somewhat, because I won't design a new blade for this, but would mount virtually any blade I produce, to an Eljay basket, on a new Eljay order.......

As of now, I haven't notified Eljay of this, but I was the holdup over the last year. Now I would do it.... though there are details to work out with a couple of different individuals including Eljay.

Here it would probably be a good idea to describe what one would get in this.........

Mac describes the baskets as "munitions grade", but extremely accurate. I would use the term rustic, but extremely historically accurate, kinda like a village cutler would produce.

Tinker saw these last nite, and raved about the historical accuracy of the construction. I personally love these two.... but for the individual that wants a perfect finish, these ain't it..... nor will the combo fit and finish rival Erik Stevenson on the one hand, or Vince Evans on the other.....

What one would get is a very solid functional sword, with an extremely period accurate basket. Handle and pommel could be done by Eljay or Dawg. The sword would not be as pretty, as say, Vince Evans {the best baskethilt maker in the known universe}, Erik Stevenson, or Armour Class, but the basket would be as period accurate as any, and I think the functionality would be superb too........

Price? I don't know, depends on who winds up retailer.....but should be less than Armour Class............{of course depending on basket, as Eljay's baskets vary depending on how much work they are}.

Auld Dawg

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David Wilson




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PostPosted: Sat 13 Sep, 2003 11:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cool
Cool!

This is exactly what we (lots of us!) have been waiting to hear!

Patiently waiting for more....

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 7:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Gus

I do believe the hilts that Gus got from Eljay are a similar style to this c.1560-70 early baskethilt !



This is big stuff , people .......

Being able to purchase historically accurate custom basket-hilts , fitted to top performance blades, in a price ballpark that is affordable , is what we've been dying for ....... This, if everything works out, is gonna be wonderful !

Now Gus mentioned "munition grade" ..... okay, yeah .... munition in the sense of not every inside guard polished to a high level of finish .... maybe more of a rustic , original, look to them ..... the look of a piece right out of a museum !

Here are a few examples of what Eljay can do ......









Just for the record ......
I fitted a Gus backsword blade to an Eljay 'Stirling' hilt ..... so I got the first one *g* Na nah na nah !

Mac




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Last edited by Thomas McDonald on Sun 14 Sep, 2003 12:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 11:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Mac

Actually, the baskets in my possession are 1550's Scot type baskets, not 1680's Irish type baskets. I've seen photos of similar baskets on 3 different swords. One of which I've seen you post out of some book, several times.......

On the "rustic" stuff, its an expectation kind of thing. A lot of folks are familiar with the Hanwei kinda finish of the baskets, and probably would be taken aback by spending considerably more money on a sword, and not having the finish be "better".

Others are familiar with what you get from Vince Evans or Erik Stevenson. "Show quality" I've heard it called.....

Well, the Eljay stuff is different. More accurate in a historical sense. Stuff that guys like you, Dave Wilson, Alex McCracken, Tinker, me and a few others familiar with antiques would love. But not the kind of stuff that folks that really like that shiny, flawless kind of finish would like.

What I'm trying to do here, is get the "expectation level" right with what we really have here. Match the potential sword fanatic with the right sword. These swords should make certain folk really happy, but they're not for everyone......

The thing is, the written word on the internet can only take you so far. Same with photos, they still don't give you the organic feel of having the sword in hand, and being able to roll it around, and eyeball it, swing it around, and maybe even cut something with it.............

swords are fun
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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 11:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Gus

Hmm , guess I had the wrong one in my head ..... I swore you said 1650-1700 ?

Okay than, something like these ones?




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Last edited by Thomas McDonald on Sun 14 Sep, 2003 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 12:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I absolutely love that early-style 1570's basket-hilt.

I know this is getting way off topic, but how can I let this opportunity go by without showing the version done by Vince Evans?



 Attachment: 31.44 KB, Viewed: 1758 times
VinceEvansLowlandBasket.jpg
"Lowland" basket-hilt, created by Vince Evans

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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 12:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is no such thing as off-topic when a fine Vince Evans is to be shown !

What a beauty, Nathan *sigh* , Mac

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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 12:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas McDonald wrote:
Hi Gus

Hmm , guess I had the wrong one in my head ..... I swore you said 1650-1700 ?

Okay than, something like these ones?




Hi Mac

Yeppir, the basket I have in hand is very similar to that first basket you have posted this time.....*g*

Thanks Mac

Auld Dawg

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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Gus

I edited my first post so as not to confuse people , and posted the right style you have !

Awesome.... I didn't know that this was the style you got ! Now I really want to test one *g*

Too cool , Mac

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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 12:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas McDonald wrote:
There is no such thing as off-topic when a fine Vince Evans is to be shown !

What a beauty, Nathan *sigh* , Mac



My sentiments exactly.

It also shows what someone will NOT get. The accuracy, but not that kind of finish.........

Looking at the photos of the antiques gives you a better idea of what Eljay's baskets look like.

swords are fun
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Patrick Kelly




PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
I absolutely love that early-style 1570's basket-hilt.

I know this is getting way off topic, but how can I let this opportunity go by without showing the version done by Vince Evans?


I've never really been *into* baskethilts, but I absolutely love these early patterns.

Gus had brought up some very valid points as to expectations. As for being historically accurate I would say that neither a baskethilt from Vince, or Eljay would be more or less accurate than the other. I'm sure baskethilts were manufactured with wide degrees of quality and finish. Where as an Evans BH might be considered to be in the Allen or Sterling class of quality, an Erickson might be in the more common ranker class. The best Eljays that I've seen photos of have been the ones owned by Mac that have a bit of an antiqued appearance to them. This level of finish really seems to compliment Eljays method of construction.

I personally think that Eljay baskets and Atrim blades would make for an outstanding combination.
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Ron Luciano




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Sep, 2003 4:36 pm    Post subject: Great news         Reply with quote

I just read all of the post and agree with Patrick ( as well as everyone else), this is a wonderful opportunity to make more baskethilts of quality accessible to more people. When I spoke with Nathan a few weeks ago he stated how important it was to see talented makers continue the tradition of arms making, and how he envisioned this site as a catalyst for such growth. I certainly concur with his vision. Angus, you are just finishing a sword blade for Erik Stevenson ( wide blade) that will be mounted on a sword for me. Glad to finally have some of your work on the way! This is really terrific news!


Ron

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Joshua Hemingway




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 6:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well....

I got to see and play with the new hilt this morning.

I have to say a basket hilt makes you feel MUCH more manly!.... but as Gus said that just makes up for the skirt... Razz

Ok sorry had to say it.


On to the hilt. They look great, Rustic is a great term for them. We need to develop a new pommel for them wich will not be a sculped holow one like on the VE peice. But will follow the weight and style well. Were also going to blue them with the deep simi-gloss black we get. Should smooth them out a lot and show off the shap with out me having to pollish them for 10 hrs (thus keeping the cost down and me intrested in them!).

We have not settled on final price yet but they should be priced well for a basket.

J. Hemingway
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Allen Johnson




PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2003 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These sound wonderful- very excited to see some of these!
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David Stokes




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PostPosted: Wed 17 Sep, 2003 9:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmmm You have my interest on this one!!
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2003 7:54 am    Post subject: Progress report         Reply with quote

Well, earlier this week, I designed a couple of pommels for use on a baskethilt, and "prototyped out" a sword using this basket and the blade I had chosen for the first two swords. Oddly enough, the basket not only affects handling dynamics, but in this case "assisted" the harmonics.

One of the reasons I never really caught the "teastrainer fever" was that back when Tinker was making four to six a year, I got the opportunity to test with him some. It didn't take long for me to come to the conclusion that the basket, while great for hand protection, also was a bit of a liability for cutting performance.

Since I finally got to use a quality basket {Eljay Erickson's} to mount on a blade of mine, I took the opportunity to do so on a "proven design", such that I could take it apart, and mount it back up cruciform style, and do some testing.

The auld plywood test, does seem to indicate, that yes indeedie, the basket does hinder pure cutting performance to some degree. But in a real world environment where armor isn't much of a factor, I don't see this as all that bad a thing.

The hand protection trade off is probably well worth the drop in cutting performance. After all, the sword's main target would be a thick Kelt skull, or maybe having to cut thru a tartan to get to the squishy parts, or less likely, a Sassanach's red coat to get to same squishy parts.......

Since part of my thoughts in doing some baskethilts, is having a sword that would work for WMA "sidesword", and/ or the new experimental SCA "sidesword", this first blade is one that is adaptable for the role of WMA type blunt, or sharp. Meaning that mounted in a basket, its liable to be a bit heavy.

The baskets that Eljay supplied have a bit of mass to them. Having seen something several antique baskets, its obvious that many of the blades mounted in the antiques, are rather light compared to what I have made the last few years. Many of them are thinner in crossection at the base, and get really "fine" from the cop out. Swords definitly not meant for cutting helmets, or hard edge to edge action {the antiques that is}.

Eventually, if I really get into this teastrainer stuff, I will design blades strictly around the apparent requirements.

For now however, these first two will weigh just a tad over 3lbs. The first one, the one headed towards Mac in a week or so, has a cog of 3.6 inches from the cross, so its rather "handy" even with the weight.

There's only two right now, and the first one has been committed to going to Mac since last spring. There's been a lot of call for the other one, but there is only the other "one" right now. It'll probably be a few weeks before any more baskets find their way here, and probably a couple months before anymore Eljay baskets get here. Josh, as the "vendor" of these, really wants to step in here, and take over the fate of the second one. I think he mentioned another skirt wearin' teastrainer-o-phile here in the NW named Dave Wilson as a likely candidate to looksee the second one.......

swords are fun
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David Stokes




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PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2003 7:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

aye, i threw my name down on the 3rd one or well, one of the next batch...
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