[Robert W. Betten]

a pommel like that isnt hard to make...and neither is putting a well sized tang on a sword, personally I have no idea why his put such thin tangs on the sword when its easier to leave stock on for a beefy tang. I loves my tangs to be AT LEAST 2/3's the width of the blade...

[Michael P Smith]

[Aaron Justice]

[Markus Haider]

Ok, I have nothing against "inspired" swords (even when it is inspired by another maker) or a company making a sword, which looks similar to another sword from another maker, when it is based on a historical piece, but this here is just rude:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem...7&rd=1

[Robert W. Betten]

lol first Albion and now his onto Christian Fletcher...

[Allen Owen]

There are a lot of people complaining here how this sword looks like that sword or someone elses and so forth. I just want to make a few points here. I would like to start out by saying that I have seen MANY swords who resemble one another from many other makers...some from the big name producers that so many are proud to own pieces from. Remember folks there are only a few designs, and fewer even less that are popular enough to produce that will make money. Unless a company or smith designs a weapon from the tip to pommel with no other reference from another sword type they are pretty well copying someone else. They all change something and put their name on it, sometimes they don't change the outwardly obvious.

I have a problem with one of the big makers and how they produce their hilts and tangs. They are a maker highly touted on this forum. Because of things I have personally experienced dealing with them my choice has been not to purchase from them. All of my problems with them are quality issues. One other issue that was not mind was told directly to me by a another regarded smith. He told me he has fixed and repaired a lot of their work which is one of his specialities. However I did not go to any forums and toss these out for everyone to read. First of all...my posting the fact of what I seen would have created a flame war and since I am pretty much new here my opinions and insights would have been downplayed even though the flaw I witnessed and the production style I was told about by one of their very own people would have not served any purpose because everyone has their partisans. The issue that was told to me by the other smith was done so in privacy, he regards the other company highly but feels quality has been suffering for the sake of production...this may have corrected it's self. So I am not free to post what I was told, and since I had not seen what he had spoken of myself it is completely second hand info regardless of the source.

Perhaps Darksword is not your favorite company and perhaps for good reason, and if that is the case...so be it thats great. But, to try and find every possible thing you can no matter how small it is to pick at is in my opinion nothing but spliting hairs and as is in most cases these ideas or remarks are personal opinons and observations, and we know how those can be skewd especialy if the smith or company is not regarded highly by the many...The makers, the forum and the discussion level would be better suited and served if the comments are kept to the weapon and it's pros and cons and not picking at simularity of photo style and website type or how it "looks" simular to someone elses weapon. If you feel something is a direct copy of material violation then advise the ones you feel have been copied and let them pursuit a course of action. Now, we have all seen the remarks about how they Darksword Armory get their blades from India. Is their any comfirmation of this or is it merely rumor?...From what I have seen at another Forum they have offered to let people come and look at thier shop...Maybe someone should take them up on the opportunity and investigate and then write an artical on it. That would stop all this guessing. It's the only way that rumors will be confirmed or laid to rest.

Just my 00.02 cents worth I'm not an expert nor claim to be.
Allen Owen

[Amy Christensen-Waddell]

Hi Allen,

This post was brought to my attention since folks are thinking that perhaps you're referring to Albion here. No worries if you are - not offended or anything. But I do want to ask you a few questions if I may...

FIrst off, if you hear things about a manufacturer, you should not feel that you need to keep them to yourself. Go ahead, name the company - it's actually better than having people speculate about who you're referring to. *chuckle* And it's one of the reasons why these forums exist. To share information. Even second hand information sometimes has truth to it. Sometimes it's information given out of the kindness of their heart in a form of protection for the consumer, other times it's out of spite, and other times it's second hand info that they've heard and passed on. In any form, it's best to get it out there so that the company can, if it wants to, respond to it.

In this case, since it's being speculated that we're the company you're referring to, I do want to find out - because if it is, it sounds as though according to some people we have some area to work on. And since I didn't know about them, it disturbs me. We aren't perfect, that I do know. But we know what our flaws are and we always fix them. These that you're referring to are not flaws we were aware of.

If someone out there is fixing our swords, we should know about it - espeically if it's considered one of his "specialties." I don't think that anyone could take our swords apart and repair them... Most times when repairs come in, we just make them a new sword because they're so solidly built. But in any case, one can't fix quality issues if they don't know about them. And, on top of that, we offer a lifetime guarantee on our swords, so they really should only be worked on by our guys, and no one else. That would void the warranty.

You talk about quality issues that you have with this producer, but don't say what they are. Are there things that need to be brought to someone's attention in detail? Bringing up quality issues should not ignite a flame war if there is a fact, or are facts behind them. It may bring out explanations, or thoughts from others on them, but flame wars don't happen often on here. No matter how highly regarded a company or smith, stuff happens... and I stress that they can't be fixed if not brought to attention. Naturally it's best to go straight to the company and say, "Hey, what's up?" And if that isn't sufficient, then take it public. Either way, you'll get your answers and you'll feel better.

We've sent out items that should not have left the shop. People have bad days, busy days, or chaotic days where nothing goes right and swords slip through QC that shouldn't have. It's frustrating, but the bottom line is we're all human, and humans are making these products. But we've never allowed anyone to keep anything that they aren't happy with. I'm sure other companies and smiths are doing the same thing, and face the same problems. I know on Tuesday I had one of those days when I should never have even gotten out of bed... but by Wednesday things were going flawlessly. Stuff happens. Moods happen. Bad days happen. But look into the situations you've heard about if you really want to know, and find out what's going on before really making a decision or forming an opinion. Well actually, after glancing through your post, I see that you already acknowledge that by saying that people should look into the Darksword indian-blade accusation before deciding that it's true. So you know what I'm talking about. :-)

Anyway, those are my thoughts, and my questions. If you are referring to Albion, please drop a mail to Mike (Mike@albionarmorers.com) or feel free to post things here. If we're lacking somewhere and need to give that area some attention, I want to make sure that's taken care of. If it's someone else, then I feel that the company in question will want to know as well.

Many thanks,
Amy

[Sean Flynt]

[Allen Owen]

Amy my dear,
Email on the way. But ya'll may rest assured it was not your weapons I was speaking of!

Allen

[Patrick Kelly]

Allen,

First, welcome to myArmoury. I see this is only your second post since registering. Please participate more, everyone is welcome.

Second, change your tactics *right now*.

You're free to disagree with anything that has been said here. There won't be any flame wars as a result. Those simply aren't allowed to occur here. People may not agree with what you have to say, that's fine. We all have that priviledge, and as long as disagreements are kept at a civil and mature level they can usually result in a productive discussion.

You've made some valid points in your post, and we appreciate your input. On the other hand you've done something that simply isn't allowed here, the spreading of rumor and innuendo. If you've observed defects in a makers work please post the specifics. I don't care if the maker is "highly touted" here or not. If you've seen a defect post the specifics or don't mention it at all. A nebulous statement like yours can be very damaging to uninvolved parties (this should already be obvious due to Amy's statement), and is far worse than anything else that's been posted thus far. Exchanging information is what this place is all about, and don't deride personal opinions. They have value, whether they come from a long time member or from a new one like you.

If another maker has told you something in confidence it should stay in confidence, period. If you aren't willing to mention specifics then don't say anything. As I said, these types of comments are more inflammatory than just about anything else.

To everyone else,

This is the worst thread that's been posted here in some time. If you've made personal observations about a product speak up. Otherwise, supposition and rumors serve no purpose. Neither do sniping sarcastic comments. We're all better than that. The flotsam present in this thread far outweighs the good information so far. Everyone has been told twice to keep this at a mature level. This is the last and final warning before this thread is sent to the trash.

[Allen Owen]

[Patrick Kelly]

Allen,

Thank you for your response. Since I share your profession I agree on the importance of factual information. Informed and mature opinions are always welcome around here, regardless of whether or not they agree with the general consensus. The biting off of heads is not approved of here

In regards to A&A: Your input is always welcome even if it is of a negative nature. A&A does indeed use the investment casting process for hilt construction. There is, however, a big difference in quality investment casting and the shoddy zinc casting work we see on most decorative pieces. I've owned many A&A swords over the years and I have never found fault with that aspect of the hilt construction. Many other companies use investment casting as a method of manufacture for their hilt components, and with good success. I discussed this very issue with sword smith Peter Johnsson some time ago (since Albion uses this method). Our collective opinion was that while a forged part will ultimately be stronger than a cast part, the forces neccesary to destroy a quality cast part would also damage a forged part beyond the level of usability. So the issue is really moot.

As for the breakage of the A&A sword, I can't comment on that since I wasn't there and I didn't see how the blow was struck. or with what force, and etc. I'll simply thank you for your observations and input.

[Joe Fults]

Allen,

Your response would be much stronger if you had stuck to just your first and last paragraph. Both contain valid and important points. Insinuation, innuendo, and hearsay as outlined in the second do not strengthen the presentation and overshadow some of the more pertinent observations you presented.

Edited to add: I posted this before reading the rest of the thread. Your later post cleaned things up nicely. Main point I hoped to make is that the second paragraph drowned out information I felt was more important in the paragraph before and after it.

[Timothy Gulics]

[Patrick Kelly]

[Kenneth Enroth]

It is true that no one has a patent on fishtail pommels or any historical design but these want to catch a free ride on other companies' good name instead of doing their own work and making their own mark. That is what's irritating about that practice.

[Howard Waddell]

Well, as a maker, it can be pretty irritating at first, but you have to resign yourself to it and just keep trying to stay ahead of the competition. It is best to be a leader and leave the following to them.

We have had our swords molded and copied by other manufacturers, names for products and general designs (of even original fantasy pieces, like those by Jody) copied.

After a while, it just gets amusing.

Best,

Howy

[Craig Johnson]

[Bill Grandy]

Hi Allen,
I know that people have pretty much already addressed the A&A points with you, but I thought I'd give some of my experiences as an A&A customer. I own a fully custom A&A rapier. This sword was not cast, it was made completely from scratch, inspired from a picture of a piece in the Stibbert museum. It also cost more than twice as much as their production line rapiers, the ones with cast hilt components. Now, I certainly understand your desire for a forged hilt (though please keep in mind what others have said about the small difference in quality between forged and well made castings), but don't forget that fully forged means you have to pay for it. I have also owned a few A&A production rapiers, all of which had cast components, and I have never seen a production company come close to the perfect details that A&A has. Just because they cast the basic form, doesn't mean that they don't put hours and hours of pain staking hand-work into it.

Secondly, addressing what Craig said about newer pieces. I bought a Gustav Vasa rapier second hand from someone who says he got it in the 80s. I've compared it to the current version. While the older one isn't a bad sword at all, it pales in comparison to their current model in terms of fit and finish, and also edge geometry. My sword has a very obvious and sudden secondary bevel, whereas the current one has a well formed and shaped blended edge. Mine also doesn't cut anywhere near as well as the current model. The grip is very different: Mine is slightly bulky, with a very thick gauge wire wrap, and the new one has a very comfortable grip with a beautifully done wire wrap, made with a very thin gauge of wire. I just wanted to share this, because A&A seems to have made huge improvements over the years, and they started out pretty good to begin with. I wouldn't worry about their current line.

[Steve Halston]