[Jonathon Janusz]

I'll climb in the boat with everyone else on the consumer side of things here.

There are makers who I have spoken with regarding work, and keep in occasional contact with just to ensure them I haven't forgotten about them. . . until I am ready to pay in full when need be to have that work done. I have always drawn my personal line at bringing credit into a hobby, and I think (hope) I'm the better for it.

There are makers who I've moved on from, mostly due to change in my interests or needs.

There are makers who I have had cash in hand, waiting to send payment, who I can't for the life of me get to take on work, or at least communicate with me their intentions of either taking on work or not.

I have moved on with some of my discretionary spending to other hobbies due to much of the sentiments above, and I am currently in the mode of getting the house back in order so to speak, to refocus on the things that matter most to me (both discretionary and not).

Regardless of what I believe to be the best of intentions, and without going deeply into details as to not air the laundry too much, I have perhaps the worst of news in the eyes of a hobbyist. I am sad to say that a short while ago I had to "fire" an artisan with whom I had an investment made and at my loss. I've tried my best to take it in stride as a lesson learned, and am honestly a bit relieved now and am really without regret for having done it. This is the first time being brought to this in my endeavors in this industry. I think the worst of it being that although I have other projects in mind, I've lost a bit of the cavalier measure of faith that this industry sometimes requires. Now having been out for a penny, I would be lying to myself if I didn't accept that I am at least a little hesitant to be in for a pound - even down the road - as the things I have in mind are as far from a penny as that pound, financially speaking. . . and the penny was a far cry from a penny itself. . .

[Sean O Stevens]

For me, Russ called it on who in the market place is affected. The high end makers are doing as well or better then they were... their customers still have lots of disposable income. Also... the larger low end production companies deal in volume and sell to the casual buyers, and are fine.

Its the middle realm that is in danger... and that is right where my interests lie.

I've had hundreds of swords in my collection... but no single sword that was valued over 1500. After handling and experiencing all these different custom and production options... I've settled into the kind of swords I like.

I like Albion and Atrim swords, Arms and Armor, I like OdinBlades and FableBlades... all of these tend to fall in that middle realm in price.

Alas... I'm broker then broke. I've sold most of my really valuable swords.... I don't have any of my Albions anymore... and I miss them.

I wish I was able to buy... but I'm broke as broke can be... I hope it changes soon.... because I LOVE the options available to me right now.

[Robert Muse]

This has been a very interesting thread. I find that like others I have less patience with ordering a custom item. I also have a very small group of craftsmen that I will order from anymore. I ordered a custom axe from a very well known US concern. I was promised it before Christmas. There is never any feedback from the person. When I call, I am always told about the many problems that there are there. Five months ago I was told that it would be ready in two weeks. Now I really do understand problems, really I do, and don’t mind unavoidable delays, but I would appreciated being kept in the loop with an email every few weeks so I would know what is going on. You are right, funds are still very limited, well at least mine are. Do you think I am likely to order again from this company? I agree that my few funds will be spent with craftsmen that keep me in the loop and at least make an effort to deliver the item.

Regards
Robert

[Sander Marechal]

[Nathan Robinson]

[Jason Elrod]

It makes me sad to read this thread because the problems that everyone is expressing about the industry now are the same problems that people were expressing about the industry almost a decade ago.

It appears that the recession/depression has done little to change the habits of the sword makers where as the consumer has decided to deal with those few makers whom they feel are reliable.

I myself have only dealt with 2 makers since the recession started and one I decided to stop useing due to the pathetic value of the US dollar. I didn't want to but I just couldn't justify the price.

So instead of lamenting about the recession and the industry, let me suggest to US makers and European customers that they both should be looking overseas. The British pound is equal to about 1.5 US Dollar and the Euro, I believe, is at 1.3 US dollar. That'll go a long way to buying a nice custom piece from a US Maker.

[Jason Elrod]

Let me suggest, and this is just my observation from posts on this forum, that the newer makers in the industry seem to be more consistant in their communication and delivery. Some of the older more established/well known vendors should take note and some of us older consumers, myself included, should maybe try and take a chance on a piece or two.

[Russ Ellis]

Well, this thread certainly took an unexpected (although perhaps I should have thought about it more and I would have expected it) turn.

My intent wasn't to be an apologist for poor business practice or failing businesses. Rather, I was merely trying to report the state of the industry as I saw it at Blade. Also I wanted to perhaps give folks a heads up that the goodies we take for granted will be there "eventually" might not be.

[Allan Senefelder]

Russ, some of the sentiment expressed thusfar has me wondering if I was mistaken in spending $1000 plus dollars on the industry visibility giveaways. I was operating under the beliefe that I was helping out both my industry and the consumer base but seemingly I may have been opening the door to long waits and broken promises for the consumer. I was unaware of the latent animous for some of the business that exists and should perhaps have done more research and investigation before having gone forward with that idea and perhaps landing consumers in an albiet unintended by me, unwanted scenario.

[Andrew M.]

[Chad Arnow]

Allan,
I figured we'd see a post from you at some point in this thread. I think the giveaways were great, I just personally couldn't take advantage due both to finances and my own collecting habits. I think your giveaways served their purpose: to generate some orders from people who could make purchases, but were holding back. I think it also served to show that those people aren't very numerous. Most people either can buy and do, or can't buy and don't. The number who can buy but don't buy seems to be the smallest of the three groups.

The bottom line is that some makers (I'd put you in this category) are well-known for very solid products, great customer service, and timely delivery, but are still suffering simply because customers can't afford to make orders. While there are things makers in that situation can do (like run promotions and update websites to have more info/better photos as they're able), they'll mostly have to try to wait out this economic mess and hope they can get back to where they want to be.

Some other makers should take the slow times and figure out how to run a good business. They should realize that at least part of the problem is of their own doing and should work to remedy those issues.

[Chad Arnow]

Russ,
In some ways, I'm sorry to see this thread take the turn it has (and yes, I played a part in that), but many things said in it needed to be said. I think most people know things are rough for makers, even if they don't know the extent of the roughness (which is pretty bad in some cases). But times are largely rough for makers because they're rough for consumers.

I've seen well-intentioned threads like this from several people in the past couple of years. While I get the point of them, I think they can cause resentment and other issues. It can make some people feel guilty for trying to be responsible with their money during tough times. It can also make it seem like some makers don't realize their times are tough because ours are, too.

No one wants to be made to feel like they're responsible for starving a maker just because they chose to pay the mortgage instead of buying another sword. But that's what these threads can do. No one wants a starving maker on their conscience, but I have to feed my family first. These days, that means there is less left over for other things.

Makers are hit more than their fair share during these times: orders are dropping due to the economy as raw materials prices rise; plus, most makers don't run high profit margins. It's often volume that makes money more than markup. I feel for makers and don't want to see any of them go the way of the dodo. But I can only do so much to help that.

[Robert Brandt]

My perspective on the industry is a bit different than many here. As a consumer, the industry seems quite strong to me compared to even a few years ago. When high quality reproduction swords that are still in production are selling on the used sword market for 90% of their retail cost, that tells me that there is a healthy demand for them. There are enough high quality vendors in almost every price range that I can not forsee having a demand that I could not have met by a professional craftsman or company. Swords and armor is a small niche market, and it appears to me that there is plenty of talent keeping that small market supplied.

The main problem I see is that the custom and semi-custom market is not one which is likely to comfortably support a large number of individual craftsmen. If someone wants to make a living personally crafting swords, that person had better be talented beyond his competition, or expect to make a very meager living. This is the nature of non-scalable labor. A sword that requires 100 hours of labor to produce that sells for $1000 above materials costs nets you $10 per hour. It's the same math for a 50 hour investment in a $500 sword, or a 5 hour customization of a production piece. You can make more than that that delivering newspapers (Do kids still deliver newspapers?). No matter how efficiently you work or how many hours a day you dedicate, you will not get rich on those numbers. It's a shame, but it is reality. In my observation, it is usually when a small vendor tries to alter reality and turn a one-man semi-custom business into a lucrative business that the dynamic breaks down. If orders begin to exceed capacity then quality will fall off, delivery will suffer, and competition will eventually forcibly reduce the number of orders. Even expanding capacity isn't likely to change the picture much I suspect. I would guess Albion to be among the most successful semi-custom sword makers in the market today. They have built a professional reputation and a few years ago pushed capacity while holding the line on quality. But they employ a number of people now. Those people are investing the same amount of time producing their "hand-made, no shortcuts" swords that an individual craftsman is spending. The model may allow company ownership to syphon off a decent living, but I'm certain the craftsman are still in the same situation that a one man shop is in. Innovation or novelty might open a niche, but this is an industry that it largely obsessed with faithful adherence to tradition. The less I envision a smith sweating over a forge, the less I am likely to invest in that person's product.

I often hear people argue that we should support our craftsmen. I agree. I would want to help a valued craftsman make it through a tough personal time, or help him afford a really nice Christmas gift for his wife one year, but chances are those will be based on a prior relationship with that person. In my world, people who know each other and respect each other look out for each other. However, if it is a matter of simple unrealistic expectations, then I am in favor of letting market forces operate.

The custom industry will support a handful of truly talented artists. There will always be enough people with disposable income to sustain a small luxury sword market. Thankfully, sites like this offer an excellent resource for vetting which craftsmen are best suited to different projects. The production sword industry is at an all time high for quality and variety. And there are a few good craftsmen who are producing extraordinary one off swords and scabbards that I truly hope are living comfortably. These vendors cover the full spectrum of my varied collecting interests, and I for one am quite pleased with the state of the market.

[Paul Hansen]

Wow, it looks like the economy really is worse on the west side of the Atlantic... But to be completely honest I have always thought that some American collectors were perhaps a bit too enthusiastic with buying swords. Personally, I think I buy about one sword a year, on average, and a few books. My buying pattern didn't really change much due to the crisis (it did when I got married ). But each to his own...

In defence of individual craftsmen, I would, however, like to state the obvious, like a professional smith said on this forum a while ago: "I´m a blacksmith not a historian"
Likewise, you can say:
"I´m a blacksmith not a salesman"
"I´m a blacksmith not a project manager"
"I´m a blacksmith not a webmaster"
"I´m a blacksmith not a lawyer"
etc.

I've worked professionally with a lot of craftsmen (not sword makers), and they have one thing in common: they are good at their craft. They are usually not so good in one or more other aspects of running a business. Sometimes communication, sometimes bookkeeping, sometimes planning, or whatever. They became independent craftsmen because they were good enough at their craft to earn a decent living. They are usually not good enough businessmen to really grow to become managers in their own corporation of sorts.

I really get the feeling from this thread is that we expect way too much from makers. They must have low prices, short delivery times, high quality, a really good knowledge of ancient weapons, quick communication, etc. etc.

The simple reality is that people who combine all these characteristics are very rare...

So I feel it's a bit unfair to complain about craftsmen not meeting every single (high) expectation. Of course, the craftsman must be honest, that's basic. They should not steal your money. But, let's be realistic, someone does not become a sword maker to get rich quick, so I tend to trust people who are passionate enough about this to make it their job.

Instead, I would like to point out the positive side: only a custom swordsmith can make you an unique sword, built to your liking. If you buy a Windlass in a store, you can pay on the spot and take it with you immediately. No waiting time, no communication problems, no hassle at all. But you'll get the same run-of-the-mill item as anyone else. To an extent, the same is true for Albion, A&A, etc.

So in the end it's a choice. You either get a standard item, relatively hassle free. Or you get a unique piece after a process that may at times be difficult. I personally prefer the latter.

[Paul Hansen]

Robert, really interesting post!

Some remarks:

[Michael Ahrens]

Well just let me say that some of the concerns of the economy have changed my buying policies. However I still have money to be spend on some new toys. I have a commision with Christian Fletcher for a scabbard for my Albion Earl coming up soon. There are a couple of higher end production swords I would love to buy. The problem I have is with service and delivery. You pre-order a sword, you wait 2 years, then buy it in the myArmoury classified and cancel that order. you wait a year being told that the materials are not available, Buy it at a knife show, cancel that order. watch the web sites, see a new model announced, send emails on availability, hear nothing. Yes the economy is a problem, but the sane old problems are still there and that does not help either.


mike

[Jason Elrod]

[Nathan Robinson]

[Michael R. Black]

Allan-I loved those industry visibility drawings you did. It got me in touch with other makers whose products I have been happy with, and also gave me the extra nudge to purchase some armor from you that I'd been holding off on.

I have not been too bothered by delays in items I've commissioned. Most of the transactions have gone very well, with the end product being something I was happy with, communication being consistent, and the estimated timeline being in the ball park of what the maker predicted. This includes Christian fletcher, Darkwood armory, Tritonworks, EB Erickson, Valiant Armoury, Mercenary's Tailor, Vladimir Cervenka, among others.

As far as delays or problems go, there were two that ended up being very late: In one instance the maker had been injured, but stayed in contact with me enough so I felt okay about it, and eventually provided a product that was so good it was worth the extra wait to me. In the other there were some delays in materials and production that stretched out way way waaaaaayyyyyy too long, and the maker was hard to get ahold of. I eventually got what I ordered, but I'd think twice before ordering from that particular maker again.

Regards,

Michael

[Joe Fults]