Norman Phrygian Helmet Project -- myArmoury.com

Jeff A. Arbogast · Posted: Mon 31 Oct, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject:

And the last two showing his handiwork up close.Whew....

Jeff A. Arbogast · Posted: Mon 31 Oct, 2011 3:38 pm Post subject:

And one last one that didn't want to load for some reason....

Gregory J. Liebau · Posted: Tue 01 Nov, 2011 9:26 am Post subject:

Helmet looks gorgeous! Can't wait to see it all come together. The aventail is also looking great, Jeff. I've never seen an illustration of mail with dagged edges from before 1250 or so, excluding if you go all the way back into the ancient world... Did you choose that style as a preference?

-Gregory

Jeff A. Arbogast · Posted: Tue 01 Nov, 2011 11:59 am Post subject:

Jeff A. Arbogast · Posted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: Finished!

The big day has arrived! My Norman Phrygian Helmet is finished! Greg and Graciana sent me these pictures last night. I do believe that's the mighty Thorkil (Greg) himself modeling it. I think it looks outstanding. I personally believe that this helm would work from around the Crusades well into the 13th century, which covers a pretty broad area. That's what I really wanted anyway, something that would span a pretty good length of time and still be appropriate. Greg thinks it's style is entirely proper for my kit and I agree wholeheartedly. I love my great helm too, but if I was to go into battle, I'd use this. It has plenty of protection and much better visibility. I'd take that over total protection anyway in a pinch. If you can't see except straight ahead, what's the point? You won't last long anyway.
So I guess this will be the last of the pictures added to this thread at least. I'll have to take some with my kit one of these days. Maybe some Winter pictures if I can endure it. We'll see. At any rate, thanks to all who followed along on this. I think all will agree that it was fun and educational to see a master at work, as well as his talented friends who did the aventail and the liner. I can't thank all of them enough. It's a real delight to have something so unique and historically accurate, so hand-made, and so handsome, made by true old-world craftsmen. I still cannot get my head around the smoothness of that graceful hand-hammered one-piece bowl. Thorkil must have forearms like Popeye. Both he and his wife have been very patient and helpful through this whole process as we discussed things back and forth. I would not hesitate to work with them again or recommend them to anyone. It was a real pleasure, and I wish them all the best in their future endeavors, and a happy Holiday season. They sure made mine.

Jeff A. Arbogast · Posted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 1:38 pm Post subject: Last ones...

And two final ones...

Nathan Quarantillo · Posted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject:

That helm......Is sooooo incredibly beautiful! I envy your kit, good Sir. Easily one of the best out there, and a great representation of what awesomeness one can do with maille.

David Huggins · Posted: Thu 01 Dec, 2011 12:10 am Post subject: Normano helm

Congratulations Jeff, as ever Greg has produced another beauty. Look forward to seeing it with the rest of your kit when you have the time to take some pis.

best
Dave

Corey Skriletz · Posted: Thu 01 Dec, 2011 1:12 am Post subject:

The finished product is amazing! Did they use this style of helmet in 12th-Century England?

Brian Robson · Posted: Thu 01 Dec, 2011 3:08 am Post subject:

Very, very nice piece. Congratulations!

Corey Skriletz · Posted: Thu 01 Dec, 2011 3:11 am Post subject:

That's what I thought. Thank you, Brian.

Robert Rootslane · Posted: Thu 01 Dec, 2011 6:22 am Post subject:

if you dont mind me asking... how much did that beastie cost? Is the phrygian helm made after a certain helmet find, or is it rather Thorkils own idea?

Anyway, the helmet looks wicked. Are you going to use it fights too? Im not sure if i would:D Looks too good to get sword dents on it.

Gregory J. Liebau · Posted: Thu 01 Dec, 2011 9:32 am Post subject:

Jeff,

This helmet turned out beautifully. I've already made my historical nitpicks, so I'll leave that to rest - it doesn't matter. This is a lovely interpretation of what I'd consider a very classy 12th century Phrygian! The engraving is really what sets it all off, truthfully - rarely do men with skills such as Greg's get an opportunity to go wild on such simple helmet styles as this. It really creates a provocative image. I'm sure you'll be inspired by it for years to come. Cheers, to you and to Greg, who I'm sure is lurking nearby. Wink

- Gregory J. Liebau

Jeff A. Arbogast · Posted: Thu 01 Dec, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject:

Many thanks to all of you. I appreciate your kind comments.
I will try to answer any questions here so bear with me...
Robert,
As to the cost-while a bit reluctant to say how much exactly, let me say that my entire tax refund and then some will be needed to pay for this. It seemed pretty expensive at first, but as I saw how much work was involved, how several different people participated in it's construction, and how much just plain old SKILL is needed, the price in my mind became more and more reasonable.
Thorkil himself suggested the Phrygian style helm after I told him I wanted a Norman-style helm that perhaps a nobleman would own, and would fit my kit. So it was kind of both our idea. That was the process through most of it. I am not aware it is based on any one particular extant helm, although Greg used a picture in an old manuscript as a general guide. You can see it on the wall behind the helm in some of the earlier pictures.
And finally-no, I will not use it for any combat. Too pretty and too expensive. Just display and Renn Faires and such. A bit of living history maybe. But no fighting. I would use something much cheaper for that, but I'm not much into taking beatings for fun anyway. Most of my stuff, especially this item, is too costly to risk, to say nothing of myself. I can't afford injuries. Happy

Hi Greg,
Thank you for the praise. I understand your issues and in fact asked Greg about the aventail. That was an issue that swirled around between us for a while before we settled on what you see. I was uncertain at first but Greg said that he felt the dagged edge was fine for this style of helm as well as my kit, but he would remove them if I wished. So I agreed since I just like the dagged edge anyway. And he seems pretty steeped in this sort of thing, so when there was any doubt I let him take the wheel, so to speak.
I guess what I wanted was a battle helm that was at least PLAUSIBLE, if not an exact copy of a particular helm. Heck, even Albion freely admits that most of their swords are not based on any one sword, but a representation of many of a particular kind. So much is lost over time. I know about the padded cap/coif/helm thing too. But I thought this aventail would eliminate the padded cap AND the upper part of the coif and still give good protection. In fact, the aventail looks long enough that maybe it could be pulled together in front and laced up for more protection in battle. I will have to see when I get it. I had plenty of time to mull all this over, and I don't doubt that long ago some oddball knight once thought over the same things, and if he had the coin, I'm sure he could find an armorer to do his will. So maybe it's not that far off. Besides, I always liked the helm/aventail Prince Valiant look. Laughing Out Loud

I do like the look of a relatively simple helm all tricked up, as you said. That makes it maybe even more unusual. Although Greg hasn't said so, I think he did have some fun with this. And who knows, there may have been a lot more of these around than we think.