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Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
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 Posted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you again for the great comments and thoughts. This blade will be part of the "Pikula Hoard" that will be traveling out to Ashokan in about two weeks, so if you would like to wrap your hands around the grip and give it a swing or two just come out to the event and say hi!
Also I can work on getting some other shots and angles if there is any detail or aspect you would like to see.
Michael
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I was actually considering options for financing this sword, then Sunday night I came home to a blocked sewer line and there went that idea. Such is life. Again Michael, well done on an impressive piece.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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William P
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| Posted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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i have to say that that is a fitting weapon for all would be berserkers, real and fictional, its the sort of weapon one expects to see in the hands of people like the biblical golioth, conan the barbarian, or some slavering mad viking berserker
in short your swords are truely breathtaking
may i make a suggestion for another project.. make a spada lunga i.e bihander, theres another thread showing these zweihanders with these blades getting ever wider towards the tip
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Tim M.
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| Posted: Wed 31 Aug, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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I was a bit hesitant because it has the appearance of something out of a movie or video like Raman said, but then I remembered how folks like Lancelot Chan are able to wield a sword about the same size as the one Mr. Pikula has here with surprising speed and agility. Plus "Deva Slayer", as Chan calls it, has a PoB around 7.5 inches as opposed to the "handier" balance on this sword. I can definitely see this as a blade someone could use to great effect.
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Wed 31 Aug, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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I feel this sword is attractive precisely because it DOES NOT have a fantasy appearance. I guess we can't really know if a sword like this ever actually existed but it does give the aire of plausibility.
As far as we can tell with what history has left us; a sword of this proportion did not exist. I still like it though!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 31 Aug, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy V. Krause wrote: | I feel this sword is attractive precisely because it DOES NOT have a fantasy appearance. I guess we can't really know if a sword like this ever actually existed but it does give the aire of plausibility.
As far as we can tell with what history has left us; a sword of this proportion did not exist. I still like it though! |
As said above this is a historically based sword and the intent is not fantasy ( Although nothing wrong with good quality fantasy swords, but the design and collecting objectives are very much like comparing apples and oranges ).
Without a thin blade and good distal taper the profile taper and width of this sword would produce a massively unwieldy sword. 
Michael is very very good at making impressive weapons that also handle well.  
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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William P
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| Posted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Jeremy V. Krause wrote: | I feel this sword is attractive precisely because it DOES NOT have a fantasy appearance. I guess we can't really know if a sword like this ever actually existed but it does give the aire of plausibility.
As far as we can tell with what history has left us; a sword of this proportion did not exist. I still like it though! |
As said above this is a historically based sword and the intent is not fantasy ( Although nothing wrong with good quality fantasy swords, but the design and collecting objectives are very much like comparing apples and oranges ).
Without a thin blade and good distal taper the profile taper and width of this sword would produce a massively unwieldy sword.
Michael is very very good at making impressive weapons that also handle well. |
in regards to thin blades and distal tapering, how do you think this blade profile would perform in cutting tests compared to the blade profies of japanese swords. which is almost diametrically opposite to this sword, the japanese sword is narrower, thicker in the spine, the edge traditionally has alot of meatiness to it (known as niku, generating a clamshell cross section)
the reason i ask is the japanese swords are percieved as near ultimate swords for fighting unarmoured people probably due in large part to their curvature. but how would swords like this and the type X and others compare against soft targets like flesh and bone etc. since as i understand, these european sword types are also for taking down similar opponents
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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William. I I could give you " educated guesses " based on logic that a very thin blade, as long as it's not too whippy. should be optimum in cutting through soft targets with minimal friction and effort but I can't really give you experienced opinion as I don't do very much test cutting and I haven't done any before with a Japanese type blade.
A lot of this is tactically irrelevant because if the base line is with a sharp sword that can easily take a head off or amputate limbs, being able to do it 2X or 10 X better won't have much effect on the outcome of a real sword fight ( In period of course ).
Blade thickness versus ease of cutting is not the only factor in evaluating the elements that make a good sword I think: One compromises with pure cutting ability for the sake of durability of edges, rigidity for thrusting or fencing qualities.
A blade designed with only performance in cutting tests may be the best cutter but might not be the best sword on all points.
If durability and blunt trauma are also important these will affect design also.
This very long and very good Spotlight Topic might be of interest to you as it shows a great deal of tests against different target types such as cloth armour:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11131&start=0
But maybe we are getting too far off Topic of Michael's work here.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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William P
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| Posted: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | William. I I could give you " educated guesses " based on logic that a very thin blade, as long as it's not too whippy. should be optimum in cutting through soft targets with minimal friction and effort but I can't really give you experienced opinion as I don't do very much test cutting and I haven't done any before with a Japanese type blade.
A lot of this is tactically irrelevant because if the base line is with a sharp sword that can easily take a head off or amputate limbs, being able to do it 2X or 10 X better won't have much effect on the outcome of a real sword fight ( In period of course ).
Blade thickness versus ease of cutting is not the only factor in evaluating the elements that make a good sword I think: One compromises with pure cutting ability for the sake of durability of edges, rigidity for thrusting or fencing qualities.
A blade designed with only performance in cutting tests may be the best cutter but might not be the best sword on all points.
If durability and blunt trauma are also important these will affect design also.
This very long and very good Spotlight Topic might be of interest to you as it shows a great deal of tests against different target types such as cloth armour:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11131&start=0
But maybe we are getting too far off Topic of Michael's work here. |
fair enough, the type XIII and its variants make for truly impressive blades, and i just figured id catch your attention since this sword provides a comparative model to your Japanese blade blade profile
though as ashown in the thread you pointed out (i had infact read that test before but this reminded me of it) it seems that indeed thickness and profile can affect whether you kill someone or not if hes wearing a jack.
ah, i see interstingly that in that thread michael tested a type XIIIa on the layered jack, and it only did decently when done using a tip cut.
i think ill wait until he makes a relatively inexpensive viking era sword before buying this guys blades
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Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 07 Sep, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the interesting comments and thoughts.
Patrick, I'm sorry to hear about the sewer line!
| Quote: | | i just figured id catch your attention since this sword provides a comparative model to your Japanese blade blade profile |
William, I don't think that a thin 3" wide cutting cross section is anywhere close to the cross section of a katana, trying to compare this blade to that of a katana is pretty much comparing apples to walnuts. The type XIII started coming about with advancements in armor, mainly chain maile, as far as I understand, and were meant for two purposes, crush through, or create blunt force trama. A katana, as far as I know was not made to crush through armor or create blunt force trama.
The test performed in the thread that Jean linked is really interesting and provides wonderful insight and baseline as to what different weapons are capable of, but I would also wager that if you took 4 different type XIII blades, from 4 different makers you would end up with different results from each blade. The in depth study of these long sharp point objects and comparing them to each other is part of the whole idea of collecting, but until you hold, test, and swing, and cut with this blade, and compare it to the katana that you have in your collection you, it will be very difficult to for the opinion that you seek to make.
Also, relatively inexpensive does not apply to handcrafted work. If I were to drop my prices from where they are, that is because I just closed my business and am working a 9-5 and doing this as a hobby, which means I won't be selling.
On a hilarious note, if anyone saw someone running at them on the battle field with this blade I really doubt they would think, "On snap, that aint a katana, I'll take him!"
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Johan Gemvik
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| Posted: Wed 07 Sep, 2011 9:09 am Post subject: |
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There should be a coolest sword award.
On the other hand, no contest really.
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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Mike Capanelli
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| Posted: Wed 07 Sep, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Pikula wrote: | | On a hilarious note, if anyone saw someone running at them on the battle field with this blade I really doubt they would think, "On snap, that aint a katana, I'll take him!" |
LMAO! C'mon Mike, we all know Katana's can cut through engine blocks.  It's amazing to me how hyped the Katana is but I won't get in to that in this thread as it's been covered MANY times on this site already.
Winter is coming
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Wed 07 Sep, 2011 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Pikula wrote: |
The test performed in the thread that Jean linked is really interesting and provides wonderful insight and baseline as to what different weapons are capable of, but I would also wager that if you took 4 different type XIII blades, from 4 different makers you would end up with different results from each blade. The in depth study of these long sharp point objects and comparing them to each other is part of the whole idea of collecting, but until you hold, test, and swing, and cut with this blade, and compare it to the katana that you have in your collection you, it will be very difficult to for the opinion that you seek to make." |
This is a great point. Different swords from different makers, even if the same general type, will certainly behave quite differently. This whole question of the cutting ability of certain Oakeshott types is so frought with variables that only the MOST GENERAL statements can be made.
And the whole discussions of the katana and european sword comparisions is nearly an exercise in futility, but that's just my opinion.
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Wed 07 Sep, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Caption under picture of Michael holding his new creation: "Say hello to my little friend". (Think Al Pacino in Scarface).
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Gregg Sobocinski
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| Posted: Wed 07 Sep, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like Michael saw the Zombie topic and decided to create his own answer! I'm not a fan of two-handers, but this is....
Where's that thesaurus??!! "Impressive" doesn't begin to describe it.
I love reading how much fun Michael has making something like this.
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William P
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| Posted: Wed 07 Sep, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Pikula wrote: | Thanks for all the interesting comments and thoughts.
Patrick, I'm sorry to hear about the sewer line!
| Quote: | | i just figured id catch your attention since this sword provides a comparative model to your Japanese blade blade profile |
William, I don't think that a thin 3" wide cutting cross section is anywhere close to the cross section of a katana, trying to compare this blade to that of a katana is pretty much comparing apples to walnuts. The type XIII started coming about with advancements in armor, mainly chain maile, as far as I understand, and were meant for two purposes, crush through, or create blunt force trama. A katana, as far as I know was not made to crush through armor or create blunt force trama.
The test performed in the thread that Jean linked is really interesting and provides wonderful insight and baseline as to what different weapons are capable of, but I would also wager that if you took 4 different type XIII blades, from 4 different makers you would end up with different results from each blade. The in depth study of these long sharp point objects and comparing them to each other is part of the whole idea of collecting, but until you hold, test, and swing, and cut with this blade, and compare it to the katana that you have in your collection you, it will be very difficult to for the opinion that you seek to make.
Also, relatively inexpensive does not apply to handcrafted work. If I were to drop my prices from where they are, that is because I just closed my business and am working a 9-5 and doing this as a hobby, which means I won't be selling.
On a hilarious note, if anyone saw someone running at them on the battle field with this blade I really doubt they would think, "On snap, that aint a katana, I'll take him!" |
its not the same as the japanese sword, but, it seems i misjudged the purpose of the type XIII varients including this sword, i took in that wide, thin cross section with a wide spatulate point and i was reminded instantly of viking style blades
and the assumptions i made was that it was meant to cut similar targets in similar ways to a type X i.e as a oversized scalpel for cutting lightly armoured opponents into tiny bits
the katana , as i understand it is ALSO designed for similar targets as the type X which is what i meant by 'comparative model'
as opposed to something closer to a mace or daneaxe
unfortunately i dont possess any cutting blades (aside from a wushu sword a wallhanger and a machete) which is why im asking the opinion of those who DO posses a number of swords and also might know how to use them
obviously its not as good as having the swords yourself and trying them, but for now it'll have to do.
well actually, if i was wearing a padded jack like the one in the test on my body, then i would theoretically be slightly harder to kill by a guy with a XIIIa/ albion duke than i would with a katana, largely because you cant as easily just slice,or slash through the jack into my flesh, but if a guy with a katana tried the same thing, id be on the floor in a pool of blood.
thats not to say i would feel invincible id just be less likely to be bleeding from a massive gash in my chest or side
youd still likely knock the wind out of me and possibly break a rib or shoulder blade depending on where or how you hit me, or if you conked me on the helmet with YOUR sword i think id be out for the count.
i mean, taking it to a bit of an extreme, if you pitted the sutton hoo/ type X sword and roundshield against italian plate harness, youd have a hard time killing the guy since the type X doesn't seem to have either the bludgeoning or thrusting power to get through the armour and while there are gaps that arnt covered by mail, there arnt many, on the other hand if my opponent had the albion talhoffer, im in more trouble since that person would a much easier time of thrusting through the gaps in the armpits or through helmet eye-holes. or even right through the thinner plates on my body.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 08 Sep, 2011 12:04 am Post subject: |
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William well with this Type XIII we do have a heavy, but not ponderous two hander, with a thin blade that would concentrate the force or a non-penetrating concussive blow on a very narrow area, so I do think it would be a good transmitter of blunt trauma against a mostly maille clad opponent.
Against a lightly armoured, cloth armoured opponent the thinness of blade would probably make it a cutter that if it got through the layers of gambison or jack would then cut deeply, and if not cut, we are back to the blunt trauma which even it doesn't cause a serious wound can stun and opponent long enough that they are helpless for the second it takes to kill someone who can't actively oppose you, I think.
Just a thought, but if someone in full plate can't move for 1 to 3 seconds, or do anything to oppose, someone with a 2" in blade pocket knife could open their visor and take them out: This can happen if stunned by a blow, overwhelmed by a large number of opponents, or if so completely worn out and exhausted that only slow and feeble movement is possible. ( Just an opinion for consideration ).
( I think we are both trying to use logic and thought experiments in place of actual personal experience ... which is valid enough, but only gets one so far with it i.e. theories to be confirmed or proved by others who have the time and skill to make valid comparative tests. And even good testing can be subject to discussion or interpretations ).
Anyway, that is why we ask questions and think up theories.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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William P
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| Posted: Thu 08 Sep, 2011 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | William well with this Type XIII we do have a heavy, but not ponderous two hander, with a thin blade that would concentrate the force or a non-penetrating concussive blow on a very narrow area, so I do think it would be a good transmitter of blunt trauma against a mostly maille clad opponent.
Against a lightly armoured, cloth armoured opponent the thinness of blade would probably make it a cutter that if it got through the layers of gambison or jack would then cut deeply, and if not cut, we are back to the blunt trauma which even it doesn't cause a serious wound can stun and opponent long enough that they are helpless for the second it takes to kill someone who can't actively oppose you, I think.
Just a thought, but if someone in full plate can't move for 1 to 3 seconds, or do anything to oppose, someone with a 2" in blade pocket knife could open their visor and take them out: This can happen if stunned by a blow, overwhelmed by a large number of opponents, or if so completely worn out and exhausted that only slow and feeble movement is possible. ( Just an opinion for consideration ).
( I think we are both trying to use logic and thought experiments in place of actual personal experience ... which is valid enough, but only gets one so far with it i.e. theories to be confirmed or proved by others who have the time and skill to make valid comparative tests. And even good testing can be subject to discussion or interpretations ).
Anyway, that is why we ask questions and think up theories. |
fair point about being stunned, and last i checked that was a very typical way to dispatch an armoured knight,
interestingly the eyewitness guides book on medieval life details a 15th century soldiers kit with visored sallet, glaive of some sorts, sword and buckler ballock dagger (plus other things like spoon, cup dice etc), and armoured with a jack over an arming doublet, plus jack chains that attatch to his mitten gauntlets. in that kit, considering that the albion duke failed to get through the thicker jacks, even with tip cuts, as opposed to the japanese sword or the spadona which shredded the jack. id safely say id feel just a TEENCY bit safer against a type XIIIa, though the sheer size of michaels blade would likely scare the crap out of me if it actually came to fighting that blade
my view is that when it comes to weapon vs armour type, base killing ability is with two fighters in only minimal clothes,
but if one weapon cannot simply cause a kill to the opponent by attacking the typical target areas using the normal set of techniques for example the XIIIa vs the padded jack on the chest, on the chest, im fairly safe from being sliced, which means my opponent has less options on how to kill me, and i understand that armoured longsword is composed mostly of thrusts, grapples and halfswording techniques. since even a halfsworded thrust is gonna have a hard time pircing the front of a gothic or italian breastplate and all the other normal targets, arns, hands, hamstrings are also covered you have to go for the very few gaps that exist, that means either a well timed shot to the armpit or eye slit, or grappling and stabbing a dagger into his face. and despite what the macejowski bible shows, i remain very skeptical we can use a sword to chop a halfway through a persons helmeted and coifed skull
OR you dont even bother drawing your sword, grab a mace or warhammer and turn him and all of his friends into something resembling those crushed cars you see in junkyards
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David Huggins
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| Posted: Thu 08 Sep, 2011 3:07 am Post subject: New oakshott |
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Hell Yeah!!
Now this historical sword makes most fantasy swords look completly inferior.
regards
Dave
and he who stands and sheds blood with us, shall be as a brother.
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William P
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| Posted: Thu 08 Sep, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: New oakshott |
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| David Huggins wrote: | Hell Yeah!!
Now this historical sword makes most fantasy swords look completly inferior.
regards
Dave |
agreed its one of those swords that doesnt need runes and a skull pommel to be scary as hell,
to the untrained peasent levy, its agile handling despite its large size would make the more superstitious maybe think the sword is enchanted?
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