Another 'Helmes' Sword in the Works -- myArmoury.com

Tim Lison · Posted: Thu 24 May, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject:

JD-

Here is a pic of a sword from the same epoch with similar inlay on the front and something that could work well on the back...

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Thu 24 May, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject:

J.D. Crawford · Posted: Fri 25 May, 2012 6:01 am Post subject:

Thanks Tim for the suggestions. It will be interesting to see what Jeff comes up with.

Regarding dates:

The brazil nut Tim showed is one of those curved-wide-flat--at-the-bottom, straight-triangular-on-top types that shows up on some earlier swords but also on more ambiguously dated swords like St. Maurice of Turin. There is a similar pommel on one of the Naumburg Cathedral statues, which is mid 13th century. They are getting pretty close to types D and some forms of N. So it might have been a later type, or have remained in use longer?

Looking over various fanciful inlay patterns in the last few days I've noticed they were relatively common in swords dated to 11-12th century era but progressively less common after that (at least from the materials available to this amateur). I could not find anything 14th century that looks like the designs on the current sword. This might be more evidence that the current sword is earlier than dated by the museum (14th century).

It's a hard sword to date (the one being replicated here). The blade looks like classic 13th century XII to me, although its close to XIIa and some of those are dated to 14th century. The super long cross appears in 13th century (or earlier in some spike-hilts) but becomes more common later, especially curved forms are more common in 14th centuries. The pommel is useless for dating because it appears to be one of a kind (to my knowledge). Stylistically, it seems to fit with the large, more experimental shapes (D, E, N, O, R, W) that were coming out of Germany in the second half of 13th century.

For these reasons I said 1300 at the start of the thread to play it safe, but it might even be earlier. And I heard from a good source that Peter Johnsson also thinks it might be dated earlier, for reasons similar to those discussed above.

J.D. Crawford · Posted: Fri 25 May, 2012 7:22 am Post subject:

Here is Jeff's latest design based on the original and some pictures from 'Records'

I like it, but as I've said to Jeff, I think it needs a bit more detail, some small dots or lines, just beyond the outer flowers for proper visual balance.

Tim Lison · Posted: Fri 25 May, 2012 8:21 am Post subject:

Looking good! I like that a lot! This is gonna be a great sword!

William Swiger · Posted: Fri 25 May, 2012 11:09 am Post subject:

I was looking at something in Oakeshott's The Archaeology of Weapons and ran across the inscription on pages 216-217. Sword was found in the River Peene in Pomerania and dates from the first half of the 13th Century and is a very late example of Type X.

Photobucket image

J.D. Crawford · Posted: Fri 25 May, 2012 11:52 am Post subject:

Thanks Bill, that's a nice design. After reviewing this stuff I added a couple of extra wiggles to the ends of Jeff's design and we are both happy with the result. It looks like this is it. You know Jeff is pretty fast, so expect to see the real thing soon.

Tim Lison · Posted: Fri 25 May, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject:

Peter Johnsson · Industry Professional

Very, very fine work!

I must chime in on a small detail, however.

The tulip shaped decoration on the back has a circular curve where the stem cross itself. This to me seems out of style. Normally floral decorations were wavy lines with spirals growing out of them. Only rarely do we see the main lines crossing themselves like this. It makes for an ungainly meeting of the lines in the shallow angle. Something that is against the aesthetic sensibilities of the time, I think.

A minor detail, for sure. The whole work is of such a high level and made so lovingly, that I feel bad about nit picking on such things. I hope it is received in the way it was intended.

The final sword will be splendid regardless.

J Helmes · Industry Professional

Ah! Peter! If only we could have chatted yesterday. I'm affraid that I have already engraved the flowers into the blade. Such is life. The flower detail was taken more from manuscript art from the 12-14th century than from sword engravings. Stylistically curling the stem allowed me to turn a single flower into an element ,as the stem would otherwise be weak on its own.

Tim, I can't really give it a time frame. It is just the sword I am working on right now. I feel that trying to stick to strict deadlines would be detrimental to the work in the long run.

Regards,
Jeff Helmes

J.D. Crawford · Posted: Sat 26 May, 2012 6:13 am Post subject:

I'm sure we both would have heeded Peter's advice, but I'm quite happy with Jeff's design, so no worries here.

By the way Jeff, I sent you some very minor additions last night (something you might add at the starts of two outer lines, at your discretion) but was not sure if the e-mail went through. Let me know if you did not get it.

Tim Lison · Posted: Sat 26 May, 2012 8:13 am Post subject:

J.D. Crawford · Posted: Mon 28 May, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject:

Well, here it is: the 'other side' inlay, hammered in and then cleaned off. What do you think of Jeff's work?

Next step: tempering and hardening the blade.

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Mon 28 May, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject:

I forgot to ask. Is this an iron core blade with steel edges?

The inlay is beautiful BTW. I am loving watching this guy come together.

Luka Borscak · Posted: Mon 28 May, 2012 2:58 pm Post subject:

Inlay is already impressive, and it will be much more on polished surface!

J.D. Crawford · Posted: Mon 28 May, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject:

Tim Lison · Posted: Mon 28 May, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject:

Wow. Just wow! This is really, really nice. You're killing me JD!

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Mon 28 May, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject:

Robin Smith · Posted: Mon 28 May, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: