Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > 15th Century Pavises Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next 
Author Message
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Fine Pavise, circa 1480

Housed: Wiener Bürgerliche Zeughaus, Vienna
Published: Das Wiener Bürgerliche Zeughaus
Photo copyright: Unknown


Click for detailed version



Pavise, circa 1451-1500

Housed: Germanischen Nationalmuseum, Nuremberg, W974
Photo copyright: Germanischen Nationalmuseum, Nuremberg


Click for detailed version



A Bohemian Pavise, circa 1480

Housed: Unknown
Published: Unknown
Photo copyright: Unknown


Click for detailed version



A Bohemian Pavise, Late 15th Century

Housed: National Museum, Prague
Published: Unknown
Photo copyright: Unknown


Click for detailed version




A Bohemian Pavise, circa 1450

Housed: Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin
Published: Unknown
Photo copyright: Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin


Click for detailed version



A German Pavise, circa 1480-1490

Housed: Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin
Published: Unknown
Photo copyright: Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin


Click for detailed version

.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Werner Stiegler




Usergroups: None


Posts: 122
PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm currently going through some old books about arms and armour, and I think this is related to this topic. I believe we still lack even a single picture of a hand pavise.


 Attachment: 129.44 KB, Downloaded: 426 times
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Hanna




Usergroups: None


Posts: 61
PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct, 2008 10:14 am    Post subject: Pavise         Reply with quote

Here is a picture of a hussite pavise I just finished.


http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/amthanna/pavise1.jpg


Mark
View user's profile Send private message
Chuck Russell




Usergroups: None

Location: WV
Reading list: 46 books
Posts: 936
PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct, 2008 3:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

nice mark! can i put the first ding in it this weekend?
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Randall Moffett




Usergroups: None

Location: Sunny Southern California
Reading list: 5 books
Posts: 1,910
PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nothing that sawdust and some good woodglue cannot fix, perhaps even wood putty right Big Grin

Mark that does look awesome! Nice work. Got a nice flail to go along with it? I am looking at finding some wood to make a 'war club' for a project in the near future.

I really have enjoyed this post. While everyone focuses much on the armour at Agincourt to Fodden etc. in many accounts the pavaise is listed as one key factor in deflecting/defeating arrows. Clearly this item was viewed as somewhat important by chroniclers and soldiers as well.

Lovely thread.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Hanna




Usergroups: None


Posts: 61
PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008 12:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Didn't quite get the flail done, but I have a pistola to keep Chuck at bay. Still not sure about the border, its a simplified version of a 1440's bohemian pavise. It looks a little more like a manuscript boarder or a nordic sweater. It will have to do for now.

Mark
View user's profile Send private message
David Evans




Usergroups: None

Location: Rotherham, West Riding
Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 225
PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008 3:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kel Rekuta wrote:
Jon Cooper wrote:
Just received an Email from the manufacturers saying they based the pavise design on illustrations in a book by Charles Kightly entitled 'Flodden. The Anglo-Scottish War of 1513. published by Almark Publishing Co. Ltd in 1975 - Now all I need to do is track down the books sources !! Anybody have a copy and can shed ligt on Mr Kightly's sources ??


Yeah, its like an Osprey Book, nice pictures little substance. No footnotes, no bibliography. A single page list of sources.
The illustration by Robert Nicholls is on pg 23. Looks more like a Roman scutem than anything else.
#

A word of warning on the Osprey books, from chatting to Charles it appears that the artist consulted Charles a grand total of 0 (zero) times. The pictures are mildy dubious, to be polite..
View user's profile Send private message
Kevin Inouye




Usergroups: None

Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice!

I remember back when I was on the East Coast studying stage combat with Brad Waller and occasionally David Doersch, we did a sword & Buckler class and someone had a few bucklers that were based on some from Marozzo's Pressas, in a style very obviously evolved from some of those one hand Pavises. Not sure who made 'em though.


Arms & Armor makes one:


I remember liking how you could kinda 'hook' and catch blades with it in a way that round, convex bucklers couldn't.

Freelance Hack... and slash... and thrust...
www.fightdesigner.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are more pavises, from the Historisches Museum der Stadt Wien. From the book Wehrhafte Stadt: Das Wiener Buergerliche Zeughaus im 15. und 16. Jahrhundert.

There are actually probably another 10 pavises pictured in colour in this book (and more in small B&W pics), but these are the best of the bunch.



 Attachment: 71.59 KB, Viewed: 11141 times
Pavise1.jpg


 Attachment: 79.27 KB, Viewed: 11133 times
pavise2.jpg


 Attachment: 95.96 KB, Viewed: 11105 times
pavise3.jpg


 Attachment: 64.61 KB, Viewed: 11101 times
pavise4.jpg


 Attachment: 67.9 KB, Viewed: 11100 times
pavise5.jpg


 Attachment: 90.83 KB, Viewed: 11088 times
pavise6.jpg


Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Oleg Naumov




Usergroups: None

Location: Saint Petersburg
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One more pavise shield is here. This is the real example from collection of Artillery museum in St. Petersburg. Visitors are not allowed to take pictures at that particular exhibition. Fortunately I was allowed to take a picture with the cell phone camera. That’s why the quality of that pictures isn’t high.


 Attachment: 141.16 KB, Downloaded: 325 times
...... [ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Josh Watson




Usergroups: None


Posts: 9
PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I see a lot of good information on dimensions and construction, but I would like to know if anyone knows how much a pavise would weigh, depending on period, of course?
The first step to becoming wise is to know that you know nothing.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Check out the mega-pavise here. Happy


 Attachment: 88.29 KB, Viewed: 11099 times
megapavise.jpg


 Attachment: 74.34 KB, Viewed: 10936 times
megapavise-detail.jpg
Detail

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some pavises from the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Photos by me (sorry!).


 Attachment: 78.42 KB, Viewed: 10888 times
met hand pavise.jpg
Hand pavise.

 Attachment: 24.36 KB, Viewed: 10848 times
big pavise 1.jpg
Another pavise

 Attachment: 36.12 KB, Viewed: 10855 times
big pavise 2.jpg
Pavise

 Attachment: 34.8 KB, Viewed: 10948 times
big pavises.jpg
Pavises in their cases for scale. That sword is about 4 feet long!

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bjorn Hagstrom




PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 12:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On the large pavises, there are many examples with central spine and a beak-like projection. Does anyone know what the function of that "beak" would be? I can imagine why the central spine/ridge makes sense, but that little beak makes my brain itch with curiosity...
There is nothing quite as sad as a one man conga-line...
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
F. Carl Holz




Usergroups: 
Donating Members

Location: someplace out on the water (and probably not able to access my PM)
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 5 books
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 7:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

would dueling shields be a sort of pavise as well?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Adam O'Byrne




PostPosted: Fri 13 Mar, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bjorn Hagstrom wrote:
On the large pavises, there are many examples with central spine and a beak-like projection. Does anyone know what the function of that "beak" would be? I can imagine why the central spine/ridge makes sense, but that little beak makes my brain itch with curiosity...


Completely uneducated guess here but it looked to me like the ridge and beak might be some sort of interlocking system to place a third pavise on top of two others to form a ceiling?

In some other pictures ( like the last few in this post ) there are a few specimens with what look like hooks or rings protruding from the top center of the pavise, my first thought when I saw them was if the ring or hook in the center of the top of two separate pavises was used to seat the spikes on either side of the bottom of a third then you could have a more versatile construction block for defense, using it as either a larger vertical wall or possibly angling the top row back to form a roof.

Just brainstorming , I'm not a professor or anything - but I am also interested in these medieval multi tools.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
James Head




Usergroups: None


Posts: 127
PostPosted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Check out the mega-pavise here. Happy


Fantastic illustration. Where did you find this image? Do you know if those are supposed to be Hussites behind the large pavise with the 'bouche' cut out? The chalice painted on the shield and the war flails make me think so.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Head wrote:
Fantastic illustration. Where did you find this image?


I believe it was the old Bruno Thomas book Harnische. The book is in German, so I can't tell you a lot about it. Happy Some neat pictures, though.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Vrin Thomas




Usergroups: None


Posts: 12
PostPosted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have heard second (or third) hand that the word Pavise comes from the town of Pavia in Italy and that their cottage industry was the shield. Is there any truth to this?
View user's profile Send private message
Bjorn Hagstrom




PostPosted: Tue 17 Mar, 2009 12:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Adam O'Byrne wrote:


Completely uneducated guess here but it looked to me like the ridge and beak might be some sort of interlocking system to place a third pavise on top of two others to form a ceiling?

In some other pictures ( like the last few in this post ) there are a few specimens with what look like hooks or rings protruding from the top center of the pavise, my first thought when I saw them was if the ring or hook in the center of the top of two separate pavises was used to seat the spikes on either side of the bottom of a third then you could have a more versatile construction block for defense, using it as either a larger vertical wall or possibly angling the top row back to form a roof.

Just brainstorming , I'm not a professor or anything - but I am also interested in these medieval multi tools.


That is not a bad theory at all. I suppose in a siege situation where the enemy has very high ground it would be a good idea to add a protective layer on top.

Another theory, depending on the height of the pavise, could the beak be there to be a support to aim a crossbow?

There is nothing quite as sad as a one man conga-line...
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > 15th Century Pavises
Page 5 of 9 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2013 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum