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J.D. Crawford
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 Posted: Wed 14 Nov, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Woodruff wrote: | | I am curious, where do the pivot points fall on this sword? |
Best I can tell, it's 7" from the tip.
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Fri 16 Nov, 2012 5:35 am Post subject: |
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I love the color of the grip, fittings, blade, all... Although I would like to see it with a full 37" blade. 
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Fri 16 Nov, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Hopefully we're past the modern myths that medieval swords were either too heavy to pick up or light as a feather. They varied somewhere in between depending on their function, and the better companies (both historic and modern) were/are able to make this work through details of mass distribution etc.
Still, I think A&A and similar companies are in a tough position where they would like to be historically accurate (like the hard core enthusiasts here) but still most customers like things to handle 'like a fishing rod'. They need to make a living so customer's choices guide their choices in what to replicate.
Hardcore fanatics about historical accuracy might be the minority of the world-wide market, but we are also very vocal. I think a lot of people read this stuff we post without speaking up. So we plan some role in educating people that its better to buy an historically accurate piece and learn how to use it properly, rather than force modern expectations on history. This way one actually learns something from our hobby.
I think Nathan Robsinon has done a great job at setting the tone for this by the way he created and runs this site.
Some of us are fortunate to push the envelop by commissioning specific historic pieces that fall outside of the mainstream of the modern market (but not necessarily the mainstream of actual historical use). This is what excites me about custom orders.
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Robin Smith
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| Posted: Fri 16 Nov, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| J.D. Crawford wrote: | Hopefully we're past the modern myths that medieval swords were either too heavy to pick up or light as a feather. They varied somewhere in between depending on their function, and the better companies (both historic and modern) were/are able to make this work through details of mass distribution etc.
Still, I think A&A and similar companies are in a tough position where they would like to be historically accurate (like the hard core enthusiasts here) but still most customers like things to handle 'like a fishing rod'. They need to make a living so customer's choices guide their choices in what to replicate.
Hardcore fanatics about historical accuracy might be the minority of the world-wide market, but we are also very vocal. I think a lot of people read this stuff we post without speaking up. So we plan some role in educating people that its better to buy an historically accurate piece and learn how to use it properly, rather than force modern expectations on history. This way one actually learns something from our hobby.
I think Nathan Robsinon has done a great job at setting the tone for this by the way he created and runs this site.
Some of us are fortunate to push the envelop by commissioning specific historic pieces that fall outside of the mainstream of the modern market (but not necessarily the mainstream of actual historical use). This is what excites me about custom orders. |
I think this is an important point. Companies like Albion and A&A are great companies, but their offerings definitely tend toward the handier swords and are not truly representative of the full spectrum of historic examples.
A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Robin Smith
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| Posted: Fri 16 Nov, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy V. Krause wrote: | And we are talking a class of swords here- neither A&A nor Albion was shooting at a replace in their products.
I guess I "might" wonder whether Albion has gone a bit too far off the measurements if seeking to reproduce one of this Germanic early 13th. c. type. I, by no means, know of all the examples so there may be a shorter example with similar characteristics as the Ritter and if so then my concern above would be misplaced.
Like you say, Doug, if someone wants something even closer to a specific original- not a group- then executing such a piece with iron hilt, maybe iron core blade- if they did that on the original- and a nice inlay.
It's apples and oranges really. |
One thing to remember with swords is "There is ALWAYS an exception"...
Not exactly like the Ritter, but shows that the cocked hat Pommel can be found on blades that you wouldn't always expect.
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A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Sat 17 Nov, 2012 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Robin Smith wrote: |
I suspect that both A&A and Albion both tend towards swords that are on the "handier" end of the spectrum. The market as a whole seems to push for handier quicker swords moreso than completely representative samples. |
Well, I agree that these companies can lean in the "handy" direction related to examples of the High Medival [period (1050-1300) and I used to be conserned that they were compromising historical accuracy for the modern market, but with some research I don't believe this to be the case- in general.
I believe that they tend to represent a more "handy" swath of historical specimens- but a true swath nevertheless. They may choose this type of weapon as it does attract a larger audience- but the examples themselves are valid representatives.
And we do have really handy examples of extremely close replicas which are very fast- like the Solingen from Albion, and the Vigil, and the Oakeshott (though the last two may not be as precise replicas as the Solingen- still very close to the originals).
Then there is your new sword Robin, whose handling, would for me, and maybe for others, really open our eyes to a whole new experience of handling in High Medieval pieces. I mean at a touch over 2 lbs- this thing is going to be very fast- and likely very interesting in handling! I'd personally LOVE to handle it.
I also believe that all or most swords of the High Medieval Period were primarily cavalry weapons, even the lighter and shorter ones. Perhaps lighter or shorter swords can more readily be adopted to use on foot- but perhaps usage of the sword in this manner was secondary in general. I just, at this point, see the sword as a weapon meant for use from horseback and with what we know of the class of knight and/or man-at-arms of this period I don't see how we could come to a different conclusion.
I personally tend to collect more "handy" swords, because for me, I feel that I get a better sense of a weapon that has more relative versatility on foot. I don't own a horse or, if I did, would know how to use it, so just for me personally, I would feel like I were missing something if I had primarily longer and more point forward examples- which tend to cry out to be used in a cavalry context- due to their power and "punch".
Of my collection I like the handling of my Norman the most. I find my Templar to be the least appealing which for me has a bit too much mass- but surely, this thing would sing from horseback.
Last edited by Jeremy V. Krause on Sat 17 Nov, 2012 8:46 am; edited 4 times in total
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Sat 17 Nov, 2012 8:07 am Post subject: |
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All true Jeremy. I would say my comments pertain more specifically to the larger, longer cavalry swords of the high medieval age. There are a few accurate replicas on the market (like Albion St. Maurice) but I don't think they sell as well.
But getting back to the topic of this thread, I think A&A did a terrific job here of producing a sword that is very close to those longer, large single hand types (which are my personal preference) while still retaining a great deal of agility.
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Sat 17 Nov, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| J.D. Crawford wrote: | All true Jeremy. I would say my comments pertain more specifically to the larger, longer cavalry swords of the high medieval age. There are a few accurate replicas on the market (like Albion St. Maurice) but I don't think they sell as well.
But getting back to the topic of this thread, I think A&A did a terrific job here of producing a sword that is very close to those longer, large single hand types (which are my personal preference) while still retaining a great deal of agility. |
Absolutely a great example, for sure. A stand-out in any collection.
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Tue 10 Jun, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: Updated Sword and Re-Review |
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I recently received an updated version of this sword which addresses some of the minor issues I had with the original version. The new version has an even longer blade (37.5"), a longer fuller, a shorter grip, and more risers under the grip wrap. Here are some photos, as well as a couple of comparison shots with the A&A St. Maurice (they share the same basic blade with a couple of subtle modifications). A brief re-review of handling characteristics etc. will follow when time allows. Enjoy!
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Wed 11 Jun, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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While taking a bit of a work break, I'll add some words to the photos above.
I really like the new version of this sword - there was nothing objectively wrong with the old one, but the new one better suits my esthetic taste. It just looks...nastier, at least to my eyes. Once again the finish is wonderful, although I notice a few minor scuffs that I'll write off to the particular difficulties of dismantling a sword and putting it back together again.
In terms of handling: its a bit lighter, but with the longer blade and (I think) slightly further out point of balance, one definitely feels more blade presence on this version. Its not quite as quick as the first version, but one feels a greater sense of authority to the cut. However, considering the overall dimensions the handling is great. I like the way the grip length and pommel shape cradle my hand for firm but comfortable control. The additional risers also give better contact for the hand, whereas the first version was a bit slippery.
But the key factor is probably the combination of distal/profile taper. The tip is way out there, but the mass near the tip is minimal so as physics would predict, its just a lot easier to move than a uniform bar. The importance of the tip mass can be seen by contrasting to the A&A St. Maurice, which has a slightly thicker flatted-diamond shape cross-section near the end (whereas this custom sword is very flat, thin, and lenticular). The St. Maurice is a very nice replica of an historic piece, but some have complained its unwieldy to handle. Not so the custom version of this blade: this one goes where you want with (for my taste) just the right amount of effort. Amazing how subtle differences can have significant effects in a sword.
In short, this would have been an ideal weapon for a high medieval horseman who wanted an optimal combination of reach, dexterity, and authority, with the ability to place a sharp tip at the right place in very wide arc. (Especially bearing in mind that a 37.5" blade has several more inches of reach with one hand than two hands).
Overall, I'm glad I took the time and money to ask A&A to take another crack at this sword - and greatly appreciate their willingness to take on such an OCD project. At his point in my collecting I really want to get things right and stick with it rather than cycle through many versions of 'almost there'.
Thanks for reading, J.D.C.
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