[Patrick Kelly]

That article seems to justify my fears of this movie being used as a modern message piece.

I really wish Hollywood would quit trying to paint the events of past centuries with a modern brush.

[Roger Hooper]

I just read the article Alina pointed to - I guess it's too much to expect a filmmaker to not slant an historical movie one way or another, or to try to make a point of how we should act now. I hate movies as fables.

A good novel covering this subject - Jerusalem, by Cecelia Holland.

[Patrick Kelly]

Trying to get this thread back on the general track.

It is nice to see what appears to be real maille being used. At least real in the sense that it actually looks like metal instead of knitting or slices of rubber hose.

The movie I'd really like to see would bee one of the Battle of Hastings. With two big battles to be covered as well as a lot of potential for personal drama it would be a good one.

[Steve Grisetti]

[Steve Fabert]

[Steve Grisetti]

[Joe Fults]

[Joe Fults]

[Alina Boyden]

[David McElrea]

Alina Boyden wrote:

[Russ Ellis]

[Steve Grisetti]

[Patrick Kelly]

[Chuck Wyatt]

I have been wanting to see a Battle of Hastings movie for well over 20 years!
Another movie I would like to see is one of Robert the Bruce and how he restores the Scottish monarchy.
He deserves alot ...ALOT more credit and recognition than he was given in Braveheart.

[Joel Whitmore]

[Steve Grisetti]

[Joel Whitmore]

I love this era of European history and I thought I’d write a little account of the situation that brought about the battle at Hattin. The crusader states had been at battle with Saladin. In 1185 Baldwin IV, King of Jerusalem, was nearing the end of his life. He called a council of the barons and appointed his sickly 7-year old nephew ( also named Baldwin) as his successor to the throne with the express stipulation that the regency was to be given to Raymond of Tripoli. The Knight’s Templar elected Raymond’s bitter enemy, Gerard de Ridfort , as their grandmaster. A few weeks later Baldwin IV, 24, died leaving Raymond the ruler of Jerusalem. An envoy to Europe had failed to bring another crusading army to help with Saladin and this was coupled with short winter rains and the prospect of food shortages. Raymond convinced the barons to a four-year truce with Saladin. Saladin, who was having his won problems controlling his Muslim vassals, readily agreed. In Baldwin’s last council, the barons took oaths to uphold the king’s will that should his nephew not reach the age of 10 years, the new king was to be decided by the pope, the Holy Roman Emperor, the King of France and the King of England.

In 1186 the young king Baldwin died at the age of 8 and the provisions of his uncle were to go into effect to elect a new king. King Baldwin IV’s uncle was appointed the young king’s guardian. Joscelin of Courtenay, who suggested that Raymond call a meeting of the barons at the city of Tiberias in Galilee. When Raymond had gone, Joscelin got the Templars to take the boy’s body to Jerusalem while he sent his wn troops to occupy Tyre and Beirut. He then summoned Baldwin’s mother Sibylla and her young husband , Guy of Lusignan to Jerusalem to make Sibylla ruler of Jerusalem. Raymond was furious at this power play behind his back. The coronation of Sibylla was all but a done deal when the grandmaster of the Hospitallers, Roger de les Moulins, refused to brak his sacred vow he swore to Baldwin IV. They would have ignored his objections had he not held one of the three keys to the coronation regalia, which he refused to give up. He threw his key out of a window and de Ridfort promptly found it and opened the chest. However, Guy was extremely disliked by the patriarch and refused to place the crown on the head of Guy. Raymond finally had an outburst and tried to convince the other barons to crown another leader but had no support. He went back with his wife to Galilee, refusing to follow the cowardly Guy.

With the succession settled, Jerusalem began to prosper under the 4-year truce when greedy Reynald of Chatillion began to attack the fat caravans passing through his lands. In 1186 Reynald fell upon a very rich caravan and raided it, executing all that were not killed during the skirmish. Saladin hated Reynald above all the crusaders in Chrsitendom and demanded Reynald to give up the loot and the few Muslim prisoners he had taken. Reynald refused King Guy’s order and kept the loot. Saladin wanted war. Surprisingly Bohemond of Antioch and Saladin agreed that they would still enforce the truce and Raymond reasserted his support for the truce for Tripoli and his wife’s lands in Galilee. Raymond also secretly got Saladin’s support to make himself King of Jerusalem for supporting Saladin in a way against Renald and Guy. Grand Master de Ridfort convinced King Guy to let him lead forces against Raymond for his insubordination and unite the Christians before the war with Saladin began. Along the way Guy was joined by Balian of Ibelin who convinced King Guy that fighting Raymond would only weaken the Christian kingdoms and aid the Muslims. On April 29, 1187 the delegation set out to come to terms with Raymond . On April 30, Saladin’s son sent an envoy to Raymond asking for permission for a Muslim cavalry force to cross his lands unhindered. Uncomfortable Raymond honored his agreement with Saladin and let them pass. He then sent a rider to inform the Christian delegation of the Muslim calvary and advised them to stay out of the way of the cavalry. All in the delegation agreed except de Ridfort who called upon the local priory leader to attack the force. James de Mailly gathered about 200 Christian knights to attack the Muslim cavalry. What they found when they crested a hill was a force of about 7,000 muslim cavalry watering their horses. De Mailly and the master of the Hospitaillers agreed to retreat. Gerard de Ridfort accused them of cowardice and ordered an attack. Slaughter ensued and only de Ridfort and two others managed to get out of the valley alive. Raymond saw the cavalry riding with heads on their lances and canceled his treaty with Saladin and pledged feality to Guy in Jerusalem. In the meantime Saladin had assembled an ary of about 30,000. On July 1, Raymond’s wife, Eschiva, was trapped in the city of Tiberias as Saladin’s forces laid siege. In a military council at Acre, Raymond advised that Saladin would not hold his siege for long in the summer heat with little water. When the Muslim’s pulled from the siege, he advised, they should attack.

Once again de Ridfort’s hatred for Raymond came out and he accused Raymond of cowardice and selling out to Saladin. So the Christian army headed towards Tiberias and made camp at Sephoria, about 20 miles west. The encampment at Sephoria had superior grazing lands for the horses and an abundance of water. On July 2, 1187 Countess Eschiva got a message through to the Christians asking for help. Once again Raymond counseled not to move to help his own wife. Gerard de Ridfort pleaded with King Guy all night and finally convinced him to attack Saladin the next day. ONl July 3, the Christian army began to head for Tiberias. The sun was fierce and all day not a trace of breeze helped the Christian army. Saladin moved his forces to the village of Hattin, to block the road. Hattin had plenty of water. All morning and all day Muslim archers harried the army, especially the Templas who took the rearguard. Finally, on the afternoon of July 3, 1187, the Christian army reached a barren rock shelf above the village where they could see two rocky outcrops ahead known locally as the Horns of Hattin. Raymond wanted to fight on that day to the Sea of Galilee for the water, but once again, de Ridfort won out and convinced Guy to camp that night. Saladin set fire that night to brush on the hillside and keep the army up all night with choking smoke. When dawn broke, the Christian was surrounded. To the Christians’ credit they repelled charge after charge of the Muslim cavalry. But slowly thirst overcame them and the entire outnumbered army fell. King Guy was treated with honor buy Saladin who served him water with his own hand. Reynald of Chatillion was arrogant to Saladin and the great Sultan struck off his head. All of the Templars and Hospitalers were executed in a bizarre spectacle. A group of visiting Muslim Sufis from Egypt were given the task of beheading the knights of the military orders. Muslim chroniclers recount how some of the Sufi’s, students not warriors had to hack six , seven, or eight times at the heads to get them off. Thus ended a disastrous chapter in the history of the Crusaders. All because of infighting, strong wills and jealousy. Common themes eh?

Joel

[Alina Boyden]

I take it you aren't a big de Ridfort fan lol.

[Joel Whitmore]

[Lloyd Clark]