[Joe Fults]

[Nathan Robinson]

Thanks, Joe. Makes sense now. I think it's a good broad topic so I'll keep it all together since, so far, we're keeping with the blade hardness/heat-treat conversation.

I also happen to agree think the whole issue of QC deserves it's own topic, frankly, that is inclusive of all things relating to keeping products consistent when they leave the doors. It's such a small industry with small companies and even smaller margins that I imagine putting in an effective system for consistent QC is a daunting task. But that's another topic

[Lancelot Chan]

For our further information, I'll do a hardness check on the tip of spadona anyway after I'm back from mailing swords out. I'm curious too.

[George Hill]

[Michael Pearce]

[Lancelot Chan]

I grinded the spot out already so I can only test at the relative area. Plus, the test can't be done on the edge line. It requires a small surface area for me to scratch with the files.

[Lancelot Chan]

Tested the spadona on 4 inches from the tip, on the edge as close as possible (and scratched the edge at the end, resharpened a bit). 55 HRC

Hardness at the edge at mid length of blade is betweew 50 to 55 HRC.

Hardness at the forte above the area I tested yesterday was between 45 to 50 HRC.

The hardness is indeed varying along the length.

Double checked on Tinker's 2001 model at the tip. Consistent hardness with the forte's hardness.

Does it indicate different design approach?

[Glen A Cleeton]

[Glen A Cleeton]

[Nathan Robinson]

[Peter Johnsson]

I will add some info on this question.

First I must point out that I cannot answer this like someone who do day to day work at Albion. I visit two times each year and stay two weeks each time. Every time we do go through various heat treat and grinding details among man other things.
Every time I have checked with the rough and reaydy method of hardness files I have got hardness slightly below 55 HRC in the edge. This is a good hardness for this steel. It offers a good combination of resiliency and edge holding.
The inner area of the sword will grow slightly softer as it grows thicker towards the spine. This effect is more noticeable in thicker blades than wider thinner blades. One should not be concerned about this effect. It is natural and can actually be used as a positive thing since only the edge needs to reach enough hardenss to carry the sharpness, whle the body of the blade should be treated for maximum resiliency. This is acheived by balancing hardness, grainsize and cross sectional design of the sword. Varying hardness is a natural result of different cooling rates as a function of increasing thinckness. The body of the blade neeeds to have a tough spring temper. It must flex but not take a set.
Cutting tests and penetration tests I´ve myself done on hard targets like steel drums and solid wood yields good results= in extreme cases (like cutting into solid angle iron) only minimal edge damage (some 0.1 mm sise of notch). Such nicks are easily honed away. In majority of cases the edge is not damaged at all.
This shows a good combination of cross section, edge angle, and heat treat for steel used. These factors belongs together and really cannot be discussed separately.

The results Lance has got showing a softer area towards the forte can be a result of several factors. I really can´t say what is the most likely, but some possibilities are:
-Odd, unusual and unfortunate variation in the heat treat. This is really something that is out of the ordinary from what I´ve seen of the methods applied, but this could be that rare unlycky blade. Veryunfortunae if that should be the case that such a blade has slipped through QC.

-Possible overheating in grinding in this very area: seems unlikely to me, but it is a possibility. The only thing that could anbsver this is if Jason steps in and gives his input on the routines. What I´ve seen of his work makes me think it very unlikely indeed, but it could still be an explanation.

-One should note that on originals the forte is usually softer than the sharp business part of the sword. The first few inches of the blade is often seen being temepred to a blue and this coincides with a blunter edge finish in this area. Toughness was what was looked for, not hardness.
I do not think this blade was heat treated with an increase in softness towards the forte, since that is not the method developed for the heat treat at Albion. If so it would be in line with originals, but this is not the way things are set up at Albion. With steels and heat treat methods used a high toughness is acheived with a good margin all the way through the forte even at full heat treat.

-This could be one of those odd swords that have gone through the process with an un-noticed problem. The problem is not really a fatal one since the toughness at the base makes for a resilient blade, but to me a hardness of 40-45 HRC is not up to the qulaity level to be expected. I would not regard this as a normal or natural situation for a NG Albion sword.

Note that it was not the *edge* that gave the result but a place behind the edge: not an excuse, but still a fact.
The hardness behind the edge *will* always be lower than at the very edge. 40-45 HRC still seems low to me. I would rather expect a hardess of some 48-50 HRC some 8-10 mm behind the edge, depending on cross section. A wider thinner blade would have a wider section at high hardness. At the forte the hard edge will be more narrow.

I am really very sorry that this sword keeps raising all these quesitons about quality, since I know it to be a good design, an interesting sword and a highly accurate reconstruction. It seems to me that it also has been focus of scrutiny like few other swords on the market. That possible shortcomings in one single specimen should cast a shadow on a line of more than 50 swords also feels a bit strange, but I guess that is how things run in a market that is so rife with empty claims and hollow marketing hype. Customers tend to jump at the worst possible conclusion. *I* know what goes into the research, design and production of these swords. But I am also closely engaged in their creation and so my voice will of course be partial even if I strive to be objective.
I have invested six years of my life in the development of the NG line of swords. I do not engage in this because it is a way to grow rich. I do it because it is the only way to make available quality swords to demanding customers at a price that is much lower than a weapon of the same quality would cost if made by a custom smith. The guys at Albion can testify I am not easy to please when it comes to quality issues. Therefore this thread cuts close to my heart.
I would not do this work if I did not beleive in what Albion is doing every day in the workshop, building one sword at a time for demanding customers. I know their dedication. To have the Brescia picked apart on the internet is a bit like having your child publicly examined for possible health issues. I will grow a thicker hide in time, but believe me it is hard to not get emotional about all this
In the end I hope that Lance will find a sword he is happy with. If the cannot learn to love the Brescia Spadona, he should sell it (or talk to Mike at Albion for a possible replacement...?) and get something that better suits his needs and expectations. I think he could find a sword in the NG line, or otherwise turn to some other maker that builds swords according to a different philosophy.
Please also not that Albion offers a generous guarantee: if some thing is wrong with material or craftsmanship, they will replace the sword. Issues will unfortunately happen from time to time, since these swords are made by human beings. The only way to relae to this in an honorable way is to offer a guarantee to cover such situations. I know Albion is honestly concerned about having happy customers. Quality is at the very core at all stages of development and production.

Thank you
Peter

[Aaron Schnatterly]

Thanks, Peter, for an honest and informative post.

There we have it, folks, straight from the source. Is there an issue? Possibly. Does this one instance speak for Albion's entire product line, customer service, or integrity as a company? I'd say no. Taking this to a broader level, all of the big-hitters have philosophies of a similar nature - they make an excellent product, and they stand behind it. If something isn't satisfactory to a customer, I'd bet every one of them would work very hard to make it right. These pieces are all made through the efforts of exceedingly tallented craftsmen. Once in a while, there will be a piece that isn't as perfect as the rest. Let's either fix it or accept it, and go forward.

Do I have concerns about this particular incident? Yes. I hope it never arises again. Will I continue my relationship with Albion? I have plans for quite a few more pieces, starting this weekend.

[David Etienne]

I know It's off-topic but I have to say that I am a very happy customer of Albion. Before I bought my sword, I carefully made a comparison between several models and manufacturers. Then I decided to buy a Squire Line Knightly sword from Albion. This is a great sword , and seeing how the cheapest sword of their line was of such a quality, I decided to acquire something "real" (I mean the same sword but with sharp edges and an exceptional finish) , so I choosed the Next Gen Laird. Now I have it and it's far better than expected, thanks to Peter Johnsson and the Albion team.
I have not yet tried to use it against targets (even bottles or pool noodles) but I know that if I do it, I'll have to expect some wear signs, just as with my garden tools, and I won't be surprised nor disappointed.
And if I had the opportunity to buy another sword right now, it would be an Albion.

David

[Patrick Kelly]

[Patrick Kelly]

Thank you for the response Peter, informative and honest as always.

It's unfortunate that the Brescia has been the subject of so much controversy, but I think everyone involved can learn a lot from this experience.

[Joe Fults]

[Marcos Cantu]

I think that the reason people are so interested in this topic is not that they want to pick apart an Albion sword, but that many are scared to put expensive swords through tough cutting tests that may damage the blade. The fact that Lance puts his swords through these tests gives us a chance to live vicariously through him and get a sense of what to expect from a sword that we may be too attached (emotionally/financially) to to see damaged in any way.

[George Hill]

Well, I'm decided. I'll buy an Albion.

Now will someone please give me the money to do that with?

[Lancelot Chan]

Thanks PJ for your info. I've shot Mike an email to see if I can get a replacement with more consistent blade hardness along the length and original sharpness or not. We'll see how it turns out.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Best wishes Lancelot and as Marcos suggested your putting an expensive sword to the test is something we are all learning from while many of us will " baby " ours avoiding any damage. Well a lot of us are more collectors than users!

Hope things get resolved to your satisfaction.