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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Tue 05 Jul, 2005 5:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danny;

Thanks a lot for the pics.

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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul, 2005 2:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Reworked the graphic a bit to incorporate some of the features of the historical versions that Danny Grigg posted picts of.

Mostly rounding corners and changing the angle of the transition from wide rectangular blade to narrow point.



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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Al the recent interest in polearms is fascinating. Hopefuly it will open up some new options and sources.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul, 2005 5:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My last revision of my concept graphic didn't reflect the changes well enough so here is the latests version.

Instead of trying to change the original graphic I re-drew the outline from scratch.

I guess I could have edited my previous post and simply changed the attachement but it might be more interesting to leave it for comparison sake to show the way a design can evolve.

Again thanks to Danny Grigg for those picts as they helped a great deal getting closer to something historical.

Oh, I also think I did a better photoshop job on this one Wink



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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Tue 20 Sep, 2005 7:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

After discussion with Craig at A & A here is the latests redesign: Mostly longer and narrower and the butt may become a blunt spike instead of a ball.


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Russ Ellis




PostPosted: Tue 20 Sep, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Jean,

I have to say that I definitely like this redesign better. I think you are moving in the right direction there!

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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Tue 20 Sep, 2005 9:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Russ, it helps ( And fun ) getting input from Craig and looking at my copy of Spada II there is an article about fighting with Partisans and changing proportions makes mine closer in handling to a Partisan but with maybe a stronger ability for chopping cuts without loosing any thrusting ability.

Although it's still in concept closer to a halberd in weight than the more spearlike Partisan: I'm not strictly following historical design as I am aiming more for what I hope would be a good handling weapon, but I am taking advice to make it more historically correct anyway since I assume they knew more than me what makes for good handling and I'm letting Craig work out handling / balance because it's much smarter for me to let him do what he does best than micromanaging stuff he is much more knowledgeable about than me.

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Benjamin H. Abbott




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PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep, 2005 8:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Were partisans not suited for chopping cuts? Di Grassi writes that they were able to hack through armour. Of course his partisan may be different than what we think of as partisan, but he makes it clear that it was a plain blade - not some sort of bill or halberd.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep, 2005 2:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Benjamin;

Hack through armour ! ? Don't know for sure but that's a hole different can of worms that I will leave for others to debate.

My custom pole arm SHOULD be more powerful in a chop ( Blade shape ) but that doesn't mean that a Partisan would be ineffective.

I am having mine designed with a Halberd sort of weight / function in mind: And not strictly historical.

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Benjamin H. Abbott




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PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's di Grassi from http://www.musketeer.org/manuals/diGrassi/digrass3.htm#20:

Quote:
Therefore, these Partisans were made big and of great paize,

and of perfect good steel, to the end they might break the

mail and divide the Iron.


I know armour hacking is a controversial subject. I just bring it up to show how partisan in di Grassi appear to have been quite suited for giving heavy blows. He also talks about cutting up pike shafts with a partisan. It seems to be just as good at doing these things as his halberd or bill was.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep, 2005 5:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Benjamin;

Oh, I think a large bladed fighting partisan ( As opposed to late period ceremonial ones ) may well be very effective cutters.

The very wide blade of my Langue de Boeuf stays wide over 2/3 of the blade length versus a similar sized Partisan but with a more triangular blade and should, at least in my mind, be a bit more aggressive as a cutter.

I don't think my Pole arm is a Partisan but in function it should be a close cousin.

I guess it should be a matter of weight: A Partisan blade, if of similar mass as a Halberd, should be very close in effect on armour. Using the back hook of a Halberd might concentrate the power more on one point in a similar way as a Bec de Corbin.

Same thing with some of the specialized hooks on some forms of bills.

SOME Partisans might be on the lighter side and be more like a sword on a stick ?

To be honest I can make guesses but I really don't know the relative effectiveness of various pole arms on armour ?

If we compared the effects of a Danish Axe, a Pole Axe, a Halberd, a Partisan etc..... against maille, transitional armour, full plate it would make interesting reading.

I personally welcome any general Pole Arm input on this topic and not only comments on my design. ( I am obviously curious about comment about my Langue de Boeuf )

Oh, I will go have a look at that link, THANKS.

Also, if you are right about Partisan being good anti-pike or anti-armour on a par to other Pole Arms, I am real happy about that. Cool Laughing Out Loud

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Benjamin H. Abbott




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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep, 2005 6:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, if you are right about Partisan being good anti-pike or anti-armour on a par to other Pole Arms, I am real happy about that.


That's just what I gather from reading di Grassi. I think, as you say, weight is the key issue. I suspect the di Grassi's partisan was an especially heavy type.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I'm a happy custom client: Craig and I have arrived at a final design and here is a small part of his E-Mail that makes me. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

From Craig:
" There will be a good bit of forging on this piece as I try to get as a dramatic difference in thickness through out the piece, as I can. I like the dimensions of the head we have now and it looks good in steel. "

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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Early in progress Pict of the Langue de Boeuf, should be finished in a few weeks.


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Anton de Vries




PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2005 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Holy sh*t! Eek!

I clearly underestimated the actual dimensions.
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Early in progress Pict of the Langue de Boeuf, should be finished in a few weeks.



Hmmmm....I wonder if that might be my Halberd off to the left on the workbench...

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"INVENIEMUS VIAM AUT FACIEMUS (We will either find a way or make one)" Hannibal

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Patrick Kelly




PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2005 11:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean, that's going to be an impressive piece. I'll be eager to see photos of the completed product.
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Gordon Clark




PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2005 2:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Early in progress Pict of the Langue de Boeuf, should be finished in a few weeks.



Hmmmm....I wonder if that might be my Halberd off to the left on the workbench...


My glaive is around there somewhere too.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick;

It would be nice if by some favourable coincidence Nathan happened to be at A & A's to update some of the online catalogue when mine and some of the other custom polearms are finished or close to finished. ( On the spot reviews and catalogue Picts at the same time. ) (Mid December target for delivery at the moment. )

I think Nathan mentioned getting shots of the Sparth axe that A & A still makes but does not show on the site except for the downloadable catalogue, if one was in the shop for him to shoot.

I have asked Craig to take some Picts before he ships it to me so that I can post them here and if he decides to make it a catalogue item in the custom section. ( I gave him the O.K. to do so if others like it enough to want to order one: I find it much more rewarding making it available than having an exclusive piece. )

At, worse I will just have to postpone buying another sword and just finally buy that Digital camera. Eek! Laughing Out Loud

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Russ Ellis




PostPosted: Tue 15 Nov, 2005 6:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Clark wrote:

My glaive is around there somewhere too.


I'm hoping that my Italian Bill is somewhere in that general vicinity as well. Craig mentioned he had a pile of polearms to do... It seems that a lot of them came from folks that frequent this site. If I can ask what sort of glaive have you ordered Gordon? I assume a custom piece since I don't remember a glaive in the catalog. I REALLy wanted to order one of those Cuse from them that Blaz posted a while back but at the time finances were a bit tight and now I'm not putting any more orders out there because I'm saving some money to replace my ancient and decrepit computer...

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