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Aaron Schnatterly
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 Posted: Fri 07 Oct, 2005 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Helmets for WMA Sparring |
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| Mark Morris wrote: | My next question is... 
Is a leather liner in a helmet all one needs? Or is there a suspension system one can get or a padding system (like a modern day football helmet)? |
Depends on the involvement and level of sparring, and the type of helmet. A bascinet, for example, would have a very different suspension/liner than a sallet. If safety is your primary goal (with historical accuracy a second), you may wish to line it with some more significant padding - something that will cushion and protect, even if it's obviously modern material. My fencing masks have nothing more than what they come with - and that's minimal, but enough to keep full-speed rapier hits from hurting (you feel it, you know it, you hate it, but you don't wish you never went there). I know you mentioned single-handers and longswords, just illustrating mating the need with the response. My personal response to full-speed, full-contact blunt or waster longsword work is a full helm, well-padded.
| Mark Morris wrote: | | I realise that one wears an arming cap but is more padding necessary? |
One may choose to wear an arming cap. They aren't particularly thick - they do make things more comfortable. I like one with an open helm like a nasal or a kettle helm, but hate it with a closed helm.
| Mark Morris wrote: | Anyone have any familiarity with the Museum Replicas Kettle Hat?
Would a Kettle Hat be good enough for light or lower speed sparring with padded weapons and/or wasters? |
I've closely examined the MRL Kingdom of Heaven kettle hat. There is no way in hell I would use it as a sparring helm. It's not so much that the metalwork is shoddy - it's actually not bad, albeit thin (18, I think - I wouldn't go less than 16, prefer 14) - it's the liner - more specifically, the attachment of the liner. It's put in with prongs that are bent over - it's effectively stapled in. That isn't going to cut it, not at all. Even if they hold, you have a dozen little daggers potentially pointed at your head. For actual sparring, I would opt for a helm with face protection... Even when I was practicing choreographed fights for demonstrations, we used a closed helm for practice most of the time - allowing a little time to get used to an open helm for demonstrations, and the demonstrations themselves.
If you are not going to be doing particularly heavy work, you could probably get away with a fairly inexpensive flat-top or sugarloaf helm - and pad it with foam. For the $150 - $175 that the kettle hat is, you can find something more protective.
Now, this is a totally separate part of the body, but I've seen both hands and collar bones broken in sparring. We already touched on gloves (and cricket gloves can be had online in the states pretty inexpensively, I found...) but a cheap and pretty effective light armour is lacrosse shoulder pads. Just food for thought...
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Chris Last
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| Posted: Fri 07 Oct, 2005 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I saw these at By The Sword. They are 14 and 16 guage construction for $130 +S/H. I was thinking with the addition of a perforated steel plate or the wire mesh of a fencing mask they may be pretty appropriate for venues where you want to keep non-period equipment at a minimum.
Thoughts?
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" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker
Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Fri 07 Oct, 2005 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Last wrote: | They are 14 and 16 guage construction for $130 +S/H. I was thinking with the addition of a perforated steel plate or the wire mesh of a fencing mask they may be pretty appropriate for venues where you want to keep non-period equipment at a minimum.
Thoughts? |
Better than the kettle helm... alone, it's thicker, provides much more coverage (ears, cheeks, neck, very limited face), for less money. They look a little odd, but in a cool kind of way, if you ask me (and since I'm talking, I'll express my opinion).
I would bet there would be a way to attach some face protection as well - a modified fencing mask, or something - if this were desired/needed.
Again, the level of protection must meet or exceed the threat. This would be acceptable to me in some of my work, not nearly so for other.
Here are two other options at By The Sword for under $200 - the great helm and the sugarloaf helm - both in 16 gauge, both easy to pad (just glue strips of closed-cell foam inside - $10 camping pad from Wal-Mart would do a few helms):
Item 300086 for $149 + s/h
Item 300048 for $162 + s/h
None of these address the neck (at least when looking up), if that's a concern...
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Davyd Atwood
Location: Edmonotn, AB Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri 07 Oct, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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By the Sword has a section called "sport armour" or something like that sells equipment that meets SCA standards for fighting. I just purchased a close helm from there for use with sparring with aluminium wasters in my WMA class, and with's working fine. We did have to pad it, for fit as much as anything else. I'd suggest tracking down a nearby SCA group and asking them for help with the padding.
But if you're sparring, get face protection. If you're using aluminims or steel, something like a great helm or a close helm is a must; also throat protection. If you're using foams, than an SCA helm with its grillwork over the face would be fine. In my WMA group we use hockey helmets to spar with foam wasters; though of course they aren't strong enough for aluminiums. (But our focus is on protection first and appearance second.)
11 November Lest We Forget
"You can't take the sky from me" -the ballad of Serenity, Firefly
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Mat Billings
Location: Kelowna, BC Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri 07 Oct, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Here's what I use; it still needs a little tweaking, but it protects the important bits; it was fun to modify, I swear; not the greatest pic, but it gets the point across. The plan left for this one is too drill some holes in the solid portion of the sallet visor, just because the blind-mans bluff is REALLY freaking annoying!  I can only wonder how they actually functioned in these during their time period; sallets look sweet, but man...it's made to be worn with a gorget.
(dev pics are here http://ca.geocities.com/mb_welder/helm-sallet.htm)
and when we get around to modifying it, this one'll be my buddies helm!
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Lloyd Clark
Location: Beaver Dam, WI Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 508
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| Posted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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I am pretty sure that I will be going with one of these:
http://www.forth-armoury.com/Product_Catalog/...pvisor.htm
as well as a new helm from armour and castings.
However, my plan for the klapvisor will be to have pieces of industrial grade "mesh" welded over the occularums to prevent an accidently "poke to the eye".
Cheers,
Lloyd Clark
2000 World Jousting Champion
2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
Swordmaster
Super Proud Husband and Father!
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