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Addison C. de Lisle
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 Posted: Mon 02 Jan, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Was that wire an attempt to wrap the hilt?! Ouch...
I personally might be tempted to take the hild components off that and put them on a newer blade, and keep the original blade separately. Probably blasphemy, but nevertheless... 
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Eric McHugh
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 02 Jan, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote: | Great work guy's
sometime can shit happen when the parts are loose, like this one... |
That is the sword in the Gold Room in the Historical Museum...right?
I got quite a chuckle from that one...but not as big a laugh as the Basilard that was described as one of the first iron weapons in Cyprus...this was at a rather large museum in England. 
Yes, I would like a better picture of the Grobina sword. Do you have the statistics Patrik?
Tack!
Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 02 Jan, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: |
What an odd hilt, no matter how it's assembled.
How is this supposed to be put together? |
I think the piece at the top of the blade is the scabbard locket rusted into place.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2006 4:16 am Post subject: |
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It is the top of the scabbard. there are a abundance of cheap replicas of this/a very similar sword that actually has the scabbard mount casted in one piece with the hilt.
Edit: Added picture
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
Last edited by Elling Polden on Tue 03 Jan, 2006 4:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jim Adelsen
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
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I think Del Tin is the only one who has gotten it right. The 2105. Had to guess at the pommel of course.
| Elling Polden wrote: | | It is the top of the scabbard. there are a abundance of cheap replicas of this/a very similar sword that actually has the scabbard mount casted in one piece with the hilt. |
 Attachment: 23.13 KB
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Thu 05 Jan, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Eric
| Quote: | | That is the sword in the Gold Room in the Historical Museum...right? |
I think it is that one, i have never been there 
| Quote: | | Yes, I would like a better picture of the Grobina sword. Do you have the statistics Patrik? |
I have uploaded one in albums, but i can't find it, 
there was no statistics in that book about it, sorry!
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Hank Reinhardt
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 05 Jan, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject: Viking two hand sword. |
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I've never heard of a true two handed Viking sword, neither had Ewart or Ian Pierce, nor any of the various museums in Denmark,Norway or Sweden that I talked to.In Sweden the swords seemed to be slightly larger than in Denmark or Norway, but far from a two handed sword. Talk about a quest, but wait. I'll put in a new posting.
Hank Reinhardt
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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Eric McHugh
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 06 Jan, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Viking two hand sword. |
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| Hank Reinhardt wrote: | | I've never heard of a true two handed Viking sword, neither had Ewart or Ian Pierce, nor any of the various museums in Denmark,Norway or Sweden that I talked to.In Sweden the swords seemed to be slightly larger than in Denmark or Norway, but far from a two handed sword. Talk about a quest, but wait. I'll put in a new posting. |
Yes, I think this issure really boils down to people who like the swords from the 13th Warrior, so they are then hoping that there is historic support for it. I think that film (which of course is a fantasy film) does two silly things (just my opinion) in regards to the Viking swords: 1) two-handed Viking swords; 2) they wear them on their backs. [insert puking sound]
With so many examples of Vikings swords in Europe, and the complete lack of a "two-handed" version in any collection, I think if one did turn up it would: a) be a fake, or b) some smith had too much mead and decided to forge.
But that is my anti-two handed Viking sword opinion. Beside, many of the Vikings swords we do know about are some of the most beautiful and awe inspiring swords in the world.
Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Thomas Jason
Location: New Joisey Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Fri 06 Jan, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Actually, it's not a "13th warrior movie sword" reference, rather a Beowulf reference.
The sword used to slay Grendel's mother is described as being of two handed proportions.
I believe there are a few other references in the Sagas as well.
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Jim Adelsen
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 06 Jan, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
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I can't check it at the moment, but I thought the sword in Beowulf was supposed to be the sword of a giant. And was hence so big it was wielded two handed...
| Thomas Jason wrote: | Actually, it's not a "13th warrior movie sword" reference, rather a Beowulf reference.
The sword used to slay Grendel's mother is described as being of two handed proportions.
I believe there are a few other references in the Sagas as well. |
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Shane Allee
Industry Professional
Location: South Bend, IN Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 506
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| Posted: Fri 06 Jan, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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My feelings on these are probably pretty much the same as Eric's. One of the biggest statements that always gets me is when someone says they really love viking swords, but wish they were two handed. To me that just says that they really don't appreciate what makes swords of the viking age so unique. The feel and handling of viking age swords just doesn't transfer over to a two handed sword very well.
One of the things that hasn't been touched on with this sword when trying to figure out the grip length is that most of the time organic components are usually oversized when compared to steel versions. The link below is to some of Laking's work and you can see an example with an organic hilt where the guard is oversized.
http://www.vikingsword.com/laking/lak001b.html
As it has been pointed out we do have examples of late migration era/ vendal period swords that have the same general set-up with mixed medium hilts, and a variety of other ways as well. Attached is a picture showing a few, and you can see how they look like there is a longer grip than normal. I wish I recalled where the picture came from, could probably find it given enough time, although it probably wouldn't be worth the bother looking for it.
All that said, I have to say I have my doubts about the sword in question. It just looks off in the shaping and designs to me, so it will take some pretty solid research for me to take this one seriously.
Shane
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jan, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Jim Adelsen wrote: | I can't check it at the moment, but I thought the sword in Beowulf was supposed to be the sword of a giant. And was hence so big it was wielded two handed...
| Thomas Jason wrote: | Actually, it's not a "13th warrior movie sword" reference, rather a Beowulf reference.
The sword used to slay Grendel's mother is described as being of two handed proportions.
I believe there are a few other references in the Sagas as well. |
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From Chapters XXIII and XXIV of Beowulf in Hypertext:
'Mid the battle-gear saw he a blade triumphant,
old-sword of Eotens, with edge of proof,
warriors' heirloom, weapon unmatched,
-- save only 'twas more than other men
to bandy-of-battle could bear at all --
as the giants had wrought it, ready and keen.
Seized then its chain-hilt the Scyldings' chieftain,
bold and battle-grim, brandished the sword,
reckless of life, and so wrathfully smote
that it gripped her neck and grasped her hard,
her bone-rings breaking: the blade pierced through
that fated-one's flesh: to floor she sank.
Bloody the blade: he was blithe of his deed.
...
Now that sword began,
from blood of the fight, in battle-droppings,3
war-blade, to wane: 'twas a wondrous thing
that all of it melted as ice is wont
when frosty fetters the Father loosens,
unwinds the wave-bonds, wielding all
seasons and times: the true God he!
Nor took from that dwelling the duke of the Geats
precious things, though a plenty he saw,
save only the head and that hilt withal
blazoned with jewels: the blade had melted,
burned was the bright sword, her blood was so hot,
so poisoned the hell-sprite who perished within there.
...
Not a whit could I with Hrunting do
in work of war, though the weapon is good;
yet a sword the Sovran of Men vouchsafed me
to spy on the wall there, in splendor hanging,
old, gigantic, -- how oft He guides
the friendless wight! -- and I fought with that brand,
felling in fight, since fate was with me,
the house's wardens. That war-sword then
all burned, bright blade, when the blood gushed o'er it,
battle-sweat hot; but the hilt I brought back
from my foes.
...
Then the golden hilt, for that gray-haired leader,
hoary hero, in hand was laid,
giant-wrought, old. So owned and enjoyed it
after downfall of devils, the Danish lord,
wonder-smiths' work, since the world was rid
of that grim-souled fiend, the foe of God,
murder-marked, and his mother as well.
Now it passed into power of the people's king,
best of all that the oceans bound
who have scattered their gold o'er Scandia's isle.
Hrothgar spake -- the hilt he viewed,
heirloom old, where was etched the rise
of that far-off fight when the floods o'erwhelmed,
raging waves, the race of giants
(fearful their fate!), a folk estranged
from God Eternal: whence guerdon due
in that waste of waters the Wielder paid them.
So on the guard of shining gold
in runic staves it was rightly said
for whom the serpent-traced sword was wrought,
best of blades, in bygone days,
and the hilt well wound.
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jan, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Addison C. de Lisle wrote: | Was that wire an attempt to wrap the hilt?! Ouch...
I personally might be tempted to take the hild components off that and put them on a newer blade, and keep the original blade separately. Probably blasphemy, but nevertheless... |
AFAIK, it's the original wire wrapping; it's in disarray because the wooden core of the grip and other organic parts have rotted away completely, leaving only the uncorroding gold and pieces of the blade.
This is actually one of my favorite swords from the period...
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Gavin Kisebach
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jan, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Wouldn't the cross-section of the blade be different for a larger sword? Maybe not if it were just cutting cloth and flesh, and occasionally maile, but viking swords are rather thin, broad, and generally lenticular in cross section, right? A slicing blade with a lot of flex, if I'm not mistaken. So how would this fullered lenticular shape perform when streched out to two handed proportions? would it still cut cleanly, or would excessive blade wobble be a problem?
I'm just throwing that out there. I'm trying to maintain the additude that you can't change one dimention without considering the whole.
There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jan, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Gavin Kisebach wrote: | Wouldn't the cross-section of the blade be different for a larger sword? Maybe not if it were just cutting cloth and flesh, and occasionally maile, but viking swords are rather thin, broad, and generally lenticular in cross section, right? A slicing blade with a lot of flex, if I'm not mistaken. So how would this fullered lenticular shape perform when streched out to two handed proportions? would it still cut cleanly, or would excessive blade wobble be a problem?
I'm just throwing that out there. I'm trying to maintain the additude that you can't change one dimention without considering the whole. |
Gavin,
There are enough flat, thinnish, lenticular blades of Types XIIa and XIIIa to show that that still works in longer lengths.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jan, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: |
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From the Appendix to The Sword in the Age of Chivalry:
| Quote: | | Incontrovertible evidence that the use of a long (7"-8") grip and a "wheel" pommel were in use in the Viking Age is given by a watercolour drawing (dated 1846 and owned by the Society of Antiquaries) of the grave-goods of a 10th century Viking tomb cleared at Claughton Hall in Lancashire. |
That and the Leppaaho finds that gave evidence of similar longer grips and wheel and brazil nut pommels show that we can't definitively say that swords of grete swerd proportion did not exist or were not in use during at least the late Viking Age. If they were in use then, there is no reason to believe they weren't in use during the Crusades, too, given swords of that size that Oakeshott dates to the mid-1100s (this applies to the thread asking about Crusader-era longswords).
I believe they weren't common at this point, but we have evidence that they did exist.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Hank Reinhardt
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jan, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: Viking sword |
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If there is any one thing I have learned in over 60 years study of arms and armour, it is that there are no unbreakabloe rules or that such swords never existed until--------. Take the rapier...and yet there is a Celtic sword with a long,thing blade, no edge to speak of, that could have only been used to thrust with, and could have been used as a rapier. Two hand and hand and a half swords sure were not common, nor do we have any examples, but I would not go so far as to say that no one ever used one. (posted example is exluded until age and source is verified.)
Hank Reinhardt
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