Middle Eastern Swords: Saif, Shamshir, Kilic -- myArmoury.com

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:20 am Post subject:

[
Do you have any information on and/or pictures of these early swords, the straight ones? How were they similar to and how did they differ from European Swords of the time?[/quote]

Jamie

They were one handers meaning that they were used in conjunction with the shield. If you go to the site of the Topkapi Saraye Museum, you will see two swords of the Prophet Mohammad. Note that these swords are probably rehilted by the Ottomans:

http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/topkapi.html

Note that the sword above is double edged. The book "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" by Dr. Üsal describes them in detail.

The sword above:

- staright, double Edged
- signs of watered balde (damascus)
- length: 82.05 cm
Width: 4,2 cm (near cross guard), 3.7 cm (midpoint); 3.6 cm tapering (near tip)
Length of hilt: 12.9 cm
POB: 22-23 cm (from the cross guard)
Weight minus scabbard: 1.045 kg
- length of scabbard: 83.5

The sword below:

- straight, double edged
- signs of watered balde (damascus)
- length: 87.2 cm
Width: 2,7 cm (near cross guard), 2.3 cm (midpoint); 2.6 cm (near tip) this is a yelman
Length of hilt: 13.8 cm
POB: 21-22 cm (from the cross guard)
Weight minus scabbard: 0.925 kg

By courtesy of Topkapi Saraye Museum

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:36 am Post subject:

Antonio and Nathan

Thank you for your enthusiam. This is the unique source for me to go ahead. Well as you could see the first sword of Prophet Mohammad has downward quillons towards the blade. This feauture alongside the straight blade was picked up by Persian smiths during Qajar period (1794-1925) revived the tradition of making these swords. The fact which led the western collectors to call these swords "revival swords". They come in two varieties:

a) with wootz blades
b) with high carbon steel blades

By courtesy of Oriental Arms

"this is a beautiful late 18 Century Persian straight sword. Quite a rare item This is a slashing sword. The blade, although thin is very solid and both edges are very sharp. The tip however is blunt. This beautiful blade is 34 inches long, more than 2 inches wide at the top. It is forged from very fine Damascus steel but it is of very light contrast and not easily noticed. The central fuller is divided into five sectors. The hilt is all steel, with down curving quillons, and was decorated with silver koftgary, now mostly gone. The scabbard is wood , steel fittings and velvet cover. Total length 41 ½ inches (in scabbard). Very good condition. There are very small dents (less than 1 mm each, and minor pitted spots. The velvet cover is recent. "

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:40 am Post subject:

This is variety b with high carbon blade and chiselled.

By courtesy of Oriental Arms

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:45 am Post subject:

Of course Persian swords come in different varieties, contrary to the popular belief here. Below you will see a signed swords with gold inlay with wootz blade dedicated to the Zand ruler Alkhaghan Haji Ali Khan Zand and dated as well. This is a magnificent sword with massive silver quillons and fittings. This comes from a private collection in Iran. The provenance Shiraz. A truely magnificent piece.

Nathan I wanted to publish all these in my upcoming book but I will share all here! Happy

Look at the sawsome fullers

Copyright Manoucher M.

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:48 am Post subject:

More

Copyright by Manoucher M.

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 11:00 am Post subject:

Let me introduce you to the marvellous Persian shamshir from 1502-1736.

Look at the marvellous wootz pattern, magnificent, when I handled this sword my heart stopped really. Thanks to Behnam for giving me this opportunity.

Copyright Manoucher M.

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 11:07 am Post subject:

Welcome to the wonderful world of Persian craftmanship.

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 11:09 am Post subject:

Copyright Manoucher M.

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 11:12 am Post subject:

Copyright Manoucher M.

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 11:16 am Post subject:

The level of curve on Persian shamshirs vary as well as some of them come in fullers like the example below with a fuller and a wootz blade. I have seen many of these in Iranian private collections and museums.

By courtesy of Alex Huangfu

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 11:19 am Post subject:

Ladies and gentlemen

Hold your breath! let me introduce you the imperial shamshirs of Iran which are kept in high security of Imperial Collection of Tehran.

Breath taking beauty.

By courtesy of Museum of Imperial Collection of Tehran, Iran

"Two shamshirs of Nader Shah

Each covered with 850 diamants of best quality, he fought with the same swords which were later covered with jewels after his victory over Afghans and Moghul India. On the other side of the scabbard his miniatures and of his two sons can be seen (he had 50 sons!!!!)"

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 11:21 am Post subject:

Shamshir of Fath-Ali-Shah

By courtesy of Museum of Imperial Collection, Tehran, Iran

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Well, that's it. I'm going to have to buy some books to augment the library. I simply haven't had the exposure to these culture's offerings and it's just a shame. Many of these pieces you're posting are absolutely stunning, both in terms of decorative elements and form and line. I love the diversity in both. My eye isn't trained to know the difference or pick out different subtleties or good and bad for that matter, but all that comes from exposure to the pieces. Please continue.

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 1:10 pm Post subject:

Antonio Cejunior · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 5:09 pm Post subject:

Hi Manoucher,

Very beautiful swords. Thank you for posting.
I'm planning something huge for 2005... keep my fingers crossed.
Now the unveiling of the straight swords is another beauty.

I have noticed the word serraglio mentioned before. Isn't it a synonimous of harem? I know that in this case it is a geographical place.

Oh, and this calligraphy is just wonderful, stunning.
Did you know that Azulejos are rooted in Muslim blue and white tiles? The entire South of Portugal is of Muslim influence.

I marvel at the inter-influences happened long ago. Oxalá derives directly from Inch Allah and the word for bladesmith in Portuguese is alfageme the maker of alfanges Moorish curved swords.
All Portuguese words begining with Al are of arab influence.
I'm sure you heard of the Mediterranean part of Portugal, called Algarve.
Happy

Antonio Cejunior · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 5:13 pm Post subject: Still Azulejos

Here's a traditional painting at Oporto's main railway station.

Regards

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:11 pm Post subject:

Interesting information, thank you Antonio for posting them.

Regards

Manoucher

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:13 pm Post subject:

Hi Antonio

I do not know of the word Serraglio. Could you expand on that?

Regards

Manoucher

Antonio Cejunior · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 10:38 pm Post subject:

Manouchehr M. · Posted: Mon 25 Aug, 2003 11:20 pm Post subject:

Saif is the Arab variety of saber. This is again a general term in Arabic for sword which is used to denominate this Arab saber here in the west.

Arabs like the Ottomans adored Persian blades and their quality and the good quality saifs soprt Persian trade blades. Such as the example below: Note the fittings are of Arab style:

Copyright Manoucher M.:

Total length sheathed: 99,5 cms
Total length unsheathed: 95,5 cms
Total length blade: 82,5 cms
Grip: 13 cms
blade width: 3 cms
POB: 19 cms to the grip