Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Albion Earl in Hand Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next 
Author Message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 3:00 pm    Post subject: Albion Earl in Hand         Reply with quote

Interesting there are no pictures of this sword up on the Albion webiste yet, but I have one in hand now.

Somewhat to my surpise this is a much different sword than the Regent. Beyond appearance and pommel, its 5 oz. lighter than its older brother. The blade profile has visibly changed, the hollow grinding may be more aggressive and the tip is not as accutely pointed as my Regent. This is actually annoying as it will not fit in my Regent's scabbard from CF as I had hoped it would.

There is more here than a sword with new fittings.

Edit to Add - The scabbard thing is not the end of the world. I think the changes are for good reasons, its just mildly annoying as it means something else to buy. The sword is very nice.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Wed 01 Nov, 2006 1:22 pm; edited 4 times in total
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've owned two Regents. The second would not fit the scabbard I made for the first. I couldn't get the sword even halfway into it. This was a bummer, for sure, but normally I would not be surprised by this. Having said that, however, Albion has set an expectation for more consistency. I would typically expect a lot of variance in swords, but Albion has really reset that for their own items. Given this, I understand the frustration.

Sorry, Joe. I know you waited a long time for this one.

.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Travis Canaday




Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Joined: 24 Oct 2005

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Albion Earl         Reply with quote

Joe,

First, sorry to hear you can't use your scabbard on the earl.

Can you please post some pictures? Do like the feel of it better than the regent? This is one of Albion's swords I have been looking forward to seeing.

Travis
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I hope I don't sound all dissapointed in these posts.

This Earl is actually a brilliant piece of work, and I honestly think this probably should have been the rev 1 version of the Regent blade. I do not think what I have is a consistency issue. Rather I think its a case of me getting the 1.51 version of the blade this time, instead of the 1.0 or 1.01version which is what I got the last time.

If this is a case of a product evolving, as I think it is, Albion really should take a page from Atrim and talk to people about changes they are intentially making to improve products and why they are making them as thing happen. Gus does a bang up job of this. It removes uncertainy and it emotionally invests many of his customers in the process to the point that they become advocates. i'm sure it also has downside, but from what I've seen the upside is significant. Anyway, a wall of silence regarding things like this, for any reason, is a missed marketing opportunity.

Back the the Earl in hand, not fitting the Regent scabbard is a minor annoyance in the grand scheme of things. Given the interval (admittedly a huge annoyance), this is not a big surprise when I take the time to think about it. I think they probably changed the blade profile to strengthen the sword, at least that's what it looks like (to me). Given that there was at least one report of an early Regent tip getting broken off in shipping for whatever reason after it breached its shipping container, it is probably a good idea to change a bit at the tip.

The new (?) Earl blade profile is actually pretty nice without the needle tip. Its blade seems more robust, even though its lighter. I need to ge some decent weather to play with the Earl and Regent at the same time. As of this moment, I suspect the Earl is a better user, while the Regent might be a better looker.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Tue 31 Oct, 2006 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Aaron J. Cergol





Joined: 02 Aug 2006

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

that's a shame- soory to hear about that. Cry

When did you recive the sword? I too would like to see pics.

Hope things work out for you,

Aaron
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Albion Earl         Reply with quote

Travis Canaday wrote:
Joe,

First, sorry to hear you can't use your scabbard on the earl.

Can you please post some pictures? Do like the feel of it better than the regent? This is one of Albion's swords I have been looking forward to seeing.


I'll see if I can get decent light tomorrow. If I can, I'll post a picture or two but I'm not going to drill into much detail thereby spoliing a future review for this site.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 4:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron J. Cergol wrote:
that's a shame- soory to hear about that. Cry

When did you recive the sword? I too would like to see pics.

Hope things work out for you,

Aaron


Aaron,

The sword arrived this afternoon, which is why I'm suprised that Albion has not updated their website or made an announcement here.

Regarding the scabbard, its just worth noting that if you have an older Regent like I do, and think you are going to get to share a scabbard, you might not be able to. I suspect the same issue would come up if I were talking about an old and a new Regent as well (as Nathan experienced).

As for photos, we'll see how the light is tomorrow. Rain and very heavy cloud cover today. Full on mud season at its finest, so there was no way for me to get decent pictures.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Sorry, Joe. I know you waited a long time for this one.


Everything considered, not that bothered by it, just one more little bump in the ride. As I noted in some of my other posts I think the changes happened for good reason, but Albion missed a public relations opportunity by not highlighing them along the way. At least the deal is done now.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
View user's profile Send private message
Jeremy G




Location: Massachusetts
Joined: 17 Feb 2005

Posts: 53

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Joe

Congrats on the Earl! This is one piece I've been eyeing for a while. Speaking of waits, I had been waiting for the Vassal since I bought my Regent...it was worth the wait, as it's an awesome little sword and quite an eye opener. I do have to agree with you about their feedback and blade revisions. Tapping into a customers thoughts can really help a business out. Albion so far has been great to work with...Mike's a great guy and responds quickly to e-mails... though little things such as their blade revisions and updates could definitely help a customer feel more involved and that much more sure about their purchase. I think my Regent is the one you may have referred to in the shipping mishap, as I had a topic on here when it happened. Having worked in the shipping industry, I pretty much knew how it happened, and the sword came back packaged better (and with a less beat up box thru the system). I've seen packagesbeat up like that before...it's hard to imagine what a box goes thru unless you witnessed it. Anyways...back on topic...How much difference is there in the blades between the Regent and Earl? I had figured that I already had one, so I shouldn't get the other, but if they are different animals I may have an excuse to start saving up...definitely please post some pics when you get a chance!
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy,

The difference is not subtle, and its not glaring either.

Clear as mud now? Big Grin

I think its something I'll have to show with photos to really get across, but the Regent (my Regent) has a very acute extended tip that I'm tempted to describe as delicate. The Earl comes to a point in a more even fashion and results in a tip that looks like it has more material behind it. I suspect its stronger based on my initial observations (only). If the blade change is intentional, I commend it. If its accidental, I think it should become intentional.

As I noted, the really interesting thing about the Earl is the change in weight. The Earl is roughly a 1/3 of a pound lighter than the Regent I have. Its worht noting that I do have an early Regent (in fact I think the first) so maybe the Earl is closer to what current Regent blades are. I need to do some cutting and playing to be sure, but I think the Earl might be the better sword of the two.

It would be nice if somebody from Albion stops by and sheds some light. I'm telling everyone there is a significant blade change, everyone is assuming there is a reason for it, but we don't know what the reason is. Unfortunately information voids tend to become problematic when filled by speculation.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Wed 01 Nov, 2006 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,310

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe;

Sounds like a great sword and a sound design if it's more than a one - off with a different and unique to it profile.

I sort of like a well reinforced point a bit overbuilt on general principal as long as it's consistent with the intended use.

The deeper hollow grinding must be visually dramatic. Cool

Oh, with scabbards I had Russ Ellis make my Tritonia scabbard based on his own Tritonia: I think we were both crossing our fingers that it would fit properly. This may have been unwise and maybe a false assumption but I took this calculated risk because with a Museum Line sword I very much assumed that the dimensional accuracy of blade profile and distal taper would be kept to very close tolerances: At least more consistent than the Next Generation swords that don't try to duplicate the exact dimensions of an historical swords.

Not a criticism of Albion quality control by the way as individual swords of the same model can vary in subtle ways and all be made to a high standard with these small differences having little measurable impact on aesthetics or handling.

Oh, by the way my Tritonia scabbard fit perfectly. Wink Laughing Out Loud

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Joe;

Sounds like a great sword and a sound design if it's more than a one - off with a different and unique to it profile.

I sort of like a well reinforced point a bit overbuilt on general principal as long as it's consistent with the intended use.

The deeper hollow grinding must be visually dramatic. Cool

Oh, with scabbards I had Russ Ellis make my Tritonia scabbard based on his own Tritonia: I think we were both crossing our fingers that it would fit properly. This may have been unwise and maybe a false assumption but I took this calculated risk because with a Museum Line sword I very much assumed that the dimensional accuracy of blade profile and distal taper would be kept to very close tolerances: At least more consistent than the Next Generation swords that don't try to duplicate the exact dimensions of an historical swords.

Not a criticism of Albion quality control by the way as individual swords of the same model can vary in subtle ways and all be made to a high standard with these small differences having little measurable impact on aesthetics or handling.

Oh, by the way my Tritonia scabbard fit perfectly. Wink Laughing Out Loud


Not overbuilt...but more meat there at the tip. I think its probably a very deliberate redesign of the blade because its not a subtle difference. Its very even, it looks consistent, and my Regent by comparison is on of the first ones out the door. The tip on my Regent is very aggressive, the Earl not so much so.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Joe;

The deeper hollow grinding must be visually dramatic. Cool



I'm not sure if the hollow grind really is deeper, or if its just a trick of the light and my mind. I suspect only Albion knows for sure.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
View user's profile Send private message
Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional



Location: Storvreta, Sweden
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,757

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov, 2006 1:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, this is a great way to start a new day!

Phew!
"Wall of Silence" indeed!!!
I would have thought I was posting too often, rather than too seldom...Silly me.
I can certainly learn much from Gus when it comes to communication and internet activity. I shall take that to heart.
Since the start of this forum I have posted some 670+ posts. Gus has posted some 570+ posts on this forum alone, not counting the forums where he is also acting as moderator (how on earth can the man find the time!?!?!).

Another cause for my failiure in communication must be the fact that I tend to post on general questions on historical weapons as often as I post on Albion related topics. This obviously limits the time I shed light on the latest news from Albion.

Back to topic:
Joe, your thoughts and observations on this are mostly correct. The Regent blade has seen a deliberate reworking of the point section. This was done perhaps one year ago. Sorry to have missed this vital info. Beleive it or not: it is an easy thing to do, when much is brewing and many models are being worked on simultaneously. The fact that it would be a problem that a new blade would not fit an old scabbard did not even enter my mind.
I was focused on making sure the sword was as good as it ever could be. Sorry about any frustration this has caused you!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 4,393

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov, 2006 6:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm surprised that Albion didn't show us the Earl's hilt waxes when they first came in. They have done so with every other model so far, and it has always been fun to look at them.

Now we need pictures of the finished product!
View user's profile Send private message
Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
I'm surprised that Albion didn't show us the Earl's hilt waxes when they first came in. They have done so with every other model so far, and it has always been fun to look at them.



Maybe it was because they didn't do new ones for both bits. The pommel, for example, may be a repeat of the one on the mercenary. Just guessing though.
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject: Sorry about the length of this one.         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
Wow, this is a great way to start a new day!

Phew!
"Wall of Silence" indeed!!!
I would have thought I was posting too often, rather than too seldom...Silly me.
I can certainly learn much from Gus when it comes to communication and internet activity. I shall take that to heart.
Since the start of this forum I have posted some 670+ posts. Gus has posted some 570+ posts on this forum alone, not counting the forums where he is also acting as moderator (how on earth can the man find the time!?!?!).

Another cause for my failiure in communication must be the fact that I tend to post on general questions on historical weapons as often as I post on Albion related topics. This obviously limits the time I shed light on the latest news from Albion.

Back to topic:
Joe, your thoughts and observations on this are mostly correct. The Regent blade has seen a deliberate reworking of the point section. This was done perhaps one year ago. Sorry to have missed this vital info. Beleive it or not: it is an easy thing to do, when much is brewing and many models are being worked on simultaneously. The fact that it would be a problem that a new blade would not fit an old scabbard did not even enter my mind.
I was focused on making sure the sword was as good as it ever could be. Sorry about any frustration this has caused you!


Peter,

Perhaps I could have chosen a better expression. Here words mean so much more than they do in verbal communications. Please understand I am happy with the sword. The frustration with the scabbard is a minor thing. Conversely the blade change is a welcome one, and I suspect is just the first of a series of surprises I will find in the new sword.

As for communications, I do not think of you as Albion. I see you as their chief researcher, designer, and subject matter expert, but I see you as a separate entity regardless. Perhaps my perception of things is wrong. However, unless they are paying you to handle their marketing or you have come to an agreement that you will handle their public communications; to me all of your posts are an extra bonus.

Peter, are you Albion's Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) or equivalent?

I know you are the CMO, COO, CEO, and CIO of your business, but all of my transactions are with Albion, not with you. When I make my comments here I assess Albion’s performance as an operating entity, not the performance of Peter Johnnson as their business partner.

Admittedly this may be bad form on my part.

The person my periodic marketing posts are targeted for is Albion's CMO specifically and any other CMO for a top tier sword making firm in general. I hope that person understands this is not an attack, as a marketing professional should. Although they might be annoyed by getting the feedback here, this is a venue Albion effectively selected for discussions with the collector community by making their business and product announcements here, so here the feedback resides.

I'm really not trying to be critical; even though it’s apparent I'm coming off that way. I enjoy marketing, I am educated on the topic, I enjoy discussing it, it’s something I dabble in at work (finance, sales, and technology as well) and its something that most firms can improve on. Honestly Albion does so many marketing things right that they surprise me when they (not Peter Johnsson) miss opportunities like this. On a pure marketing note (off topic), I think Albion should check with a local university (if there is one) and see if they could get a marketing intern, especially one out of a master's program. It might be a low cost way to add a new set of eyes to that part of the business.

What all of this comes down to is that I think that product upgrades, if I can call this an upgrade, are great marketing opportunities that should not be missed. Think about how many times you see ads touting "new and improved!!!" in a day. Each time you tweak a design to improve it; there is a chance for ALBION to generate excitement around the change, and excitement generates sales.

Call it advertising, positive spin, marketing, or whatever but the bottom line is it gets attention, generates excitement (and sales), and helps the public understand everyone is busy over there. A short announcement about a change, in forums or on their site, will generate new discussion and drive traffic to them. My announcement of the Earl is drawing attention, but the attention is here and not at the Albion store. If they had photos up, or an announcement, it could draw people to their store right now. Instead people are asking me for photos and details, which is still good for Albion because it indicates public interest, but I cannot sell an Earl (at least I don't want to sell the one I have).

Mentioning Gus in this thread is a risk, as is always the case when mixing vendors in online conversations. However, I appreciate the fact that with all else he does, Gus understands the value of marketing changes and rarely misses an opportunity to announce them. He tells his customers they are coming, and he tells them why the changes are coming. In fact I in my opinion he is about the only person in the industry that really markets product improvements to their potential. I think its part of what makes many of his customers into passionate advocates.

Best regards,
Joe

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Wed 01 Nov, 2006 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Felix R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Reading list: 25 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov, 2006 8:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

@Joe

On the other hand this means Albion has it´s good reputation, though it is still lacking in Germany but due to Soren we can hope, just due to confident customers experiencing their products by themselves and not due to the marketing.

In some point of view I personally would have a problem with a company with a kind of "overmarketing" thing.

Which of course does not mean that a blade version change could not be commented. This situation makes me worry, that if I would like to buy a scabbard for my Crecy or the Sherriff which is to come would be a fitting problem.


Last edited by Felix R. on Wed 01 Nov, 2006 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Felix R. wrote:
@Joe

On the other hand this means Albion has it´s good reputation, though it is still lacking in Germany but due to Soren we can hope, is just due to confident customers experiencing their products by themselves and not due to the marketing.

I some point of view I personally would have a problem with a company with a kind of "overmarketing" thing.

Which of course does not mean that a blade version change could not be commented. This situation makes me worry, that if I would like to buy a scabbard for my Crecy or the Sherriff which is to come would be a fitting problem.


Felix,

Marketing in and of itself is not evil. Its simply a tool you can use to inform customers and generate sales, just like a salesman. Even word of mouth and customer advocates are forms of marketing. Its how you use the tool that can cause problems, as many companes try to use marketing to make up for inferior quality.

But do you consider the annuncement of legitimate product improvements overmarketing?

I know I don't.

As for scabbard fit, I'm not sure I would over worry about it, but I would ask about it when ordering if its a consideration in your purchasing decision.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Wed 01 Nov, 2006 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Howard Waddell
Industry Professional



Location: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 717

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov, 2006 8:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe:

We sent you the sword in advance of posting it because you had waited so long for it. We thought that was a good thing. Apparently it wasn't and I apologise. As my old boss used to say: "No good deed goes unpunished."

Sorry I could not get photos up in time - I have found with the hollow-ground blades especially, that I get the best photos outdoors. Like you, we have had a lot of rain lately.

And I am sorry that we fall so short of your expectations on apparently every level of our business.

Best,

Howy

Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Albion Earl in Hand
Page 1 of 5 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum