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Michael Eging
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Posted: Fri 30 Oct, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Samuel Bena wrote: | Michael Eging wrote: | Okay, here is a picture of the Emerpor Nikephoros Phokas holding a paramerion |
Hi Michael ,
gotta ask , any idea what is the place of origin/date of the Emperors portrait ?
Thanks |
I am looking for a definitive dating on the picture. Enclosed is a full photo showing the entire portrait. I'm not sure if it is contemporary to him or not (which would be the mid 900's). Note this picture has a pretty good view of the scabbard as well.
Here is a wikipedia link that has more external links and details on the life of Nikephoros II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikephoros_II
Attachment: 19.37 KB
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
Member of the HEMA Alliance
http://hemaalliance.com/
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Michael Eging
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Posted: Mon 02 Nov, 2009 7:18 am Post subject: |
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In 1453, when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans, Emperor Constantine XI may have been carrying a paramerion as depicted in this statue. In the 1830's, when an envoy came to the court of Nicholas of Russia, he bore with him a sword that he claimed belonged to Constantine XI, which he gave to the Tsar. The following link, on page 24, includes a picture of the blade of that sword as well as some interesting background.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9yGRZTZhlDQC...mp;f=false
Does anyone have a better picture of this sword?
Attachment: 26.69 KB
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
Member of the HEMA Alliance
http://hemaalliance.com/
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D Vranas
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Posted: Mon 02 Nov, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Samuel Bena wrote: | Michael Eging wrote: | Okay, here is a picture of the Emerpor Nikephoros Phokas holding a paramerion |
Hi Michael ,
gotta ask , any idea what is the place of origin/date of the Emperors portrait ?
Thanks |
16th century.
Athos manuscript.
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D Vranas
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Posted: Mon 02 Nov, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think the emperor wore this armor.
It looks quiet anachronistic-like a 11th cent armor.
I think it would be more possible for him to wear an italian full plate.
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Michael Eging
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Posted: Mon 02 Nov, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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I am not completely sure what armor he might have worn, but agree that this is a stylized statue. But my curiosity is with the sword that either he used, or later became associated with his legend when it was given to the Tsar. I would really like to see the entire blade if there are some pictures of it.
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
Member of the HEMA Alliance
http://hemaalliance.com/
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Maurizio D'Angelo
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Posted: Mon 02 Nov, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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'Then the prince, worthy of immortality, took off his imperial regalia and threw them away, and as if it were a private individual, with sword in hand, jumped into the fray. Not to die while fighting valiantly unavenged, was eventually killed and confused his body in the ruins of a royal city and the fall of his kingdom. "*
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Michael Eging
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Posted: Tue 03 Nov, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Maurizio, have a look at page 24 of the linked text in my post. There is a piece of the blade that is attached to the legend of Constantine. It would be interesting if there is a full length shot of the weapon someplace. The etching on the blade is really incredible and I would like to see the whole piece.
Enclosed with the post is a shot of the sword attributed to Constantine's foe, Mehmet.
Attachment: 146.36 KB
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
Member of the HEMA Alliance
http://hemaalliance.com/
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Michael Eging
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Posted: Tue 03 Nov, 2009 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Here is a picture of Mehmet's sword, again. Again, while my question is on a better picture of Constantine XI's sword, I thought this might be of interest here.
Attachment: 93.13 KB
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
Member of the HEMA Alliance
http://hemaalliance.com/
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Maurizio D'Angelo
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Posted: Tue 03 Nov, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Michael Eging wrote: | Maurizio, have a look at page 24 of the linked text in my post. There is a piece of the blade that is attached to the legend of Constantine. It would be interesting if there is a full length shot of the weapon someplace. The etching on the blade is really incredible and I would like to see the whole piece.
Enclosed with the post is a shot of the sword attributed to Constantine's foe, Mehmet. |
Hello Micheal,
I have that sword whole, I photograph my book and try to translate the text. Is in Italian.
It is located in the Royal Armory Museum in Turin.
Appears to have belonged to Constantine VI. Lacks the grip.
Now I haven't time, but tomorrow I will post the photo here.
Ciao
Maurizio
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Michael Eging
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Posted: Tue 03 Nov, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Maurizio D'Angelo wrote: | Michael Eging wrote: | Maurizio, have a look at page 24 of the linked text in my post. There is a piece of the blade that is attached to the legend of Constantine. It would be interesting if there is a full length shot of the weapon someplace. The etching on the blade is really incredible and I would like to see the whole piece.
Enclosed with the post is a shot of the sword attributed to Constantine's foe, Mehmet. |
Hello Micheal,
I have that sword whole, I photograph my book and try to translate the text. Is in Italian.
It is located in the Royal Armory Museum in Turin.
Appears to have belonged to Constantine VI. Lacks the grip.
Now I haven't time, but tomorrow I will post the photo here.
Ciao
Maurizio |
That sounds great. As you can see from the link, it has some really incredible etchings. I was thinking it might be in the Hermitage or some other Russian museum. Thanks! I went back to the source on the link I provided and sure enough, they mention it is at the Royal Armory Museum in Turin! Now I am wondering how it got there was its place in the court of Nicholas in the 1830's!! Thanks for any photo you might have of it!
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
Member of the HEMA Alliance
http://hemaalliance.com/
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Maurizio D'Angelo
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Posted: Tue 03 Nov, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Sword on the left belonged to Suleiman the Magnificent.
The sword on the right is mentioned by David Nicolle-Constantinople 1453 - pag. 24, probably of Constantine VI.
Comes from Istanbul, master greek. Name unknown.
Measurements of this sword are:
total length 966 mm.
Blade length 825 mm.
blade width 33 mm.
Weight 570 g.
Lett Ruffini - 1931
Blade very curved, black damask of Istanbul. Enlarged toward the tip. Only on the right, the blade is decorated in gold, precious stones, 6 red, a Madonna with child, two angels holding a crown with three red stones. A writing in greek all in gold.
On the left a little fuller, to the medium.
Was brought to Turin from Ronualdo Tecco in the service of Charles Albert.
It is certain that belonged to Constantin Brancoveanu, Prince of Valdacchia and Moldova. 1688-1714
This blade has been re-hilt and used later in turkish environment.
Lionello Boccia - Armeria Reale di Torino - P. 307-405
For this author that I respect very much, it is unlikely that belonged to Constantine XI.
I hope this helps.
Ciao
Maurizio
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pag. 307
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The sword...
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My translation is just a small summary. pag. 405
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The English translation is on page. 24 of the book by David Nicolle
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Michael Eging
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Posted: Tue 03 Nov, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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So, is the story of the sword of Constantine XI being transmitted to Russian during the reign of Nicholas nothing more than legend? This is a gorgeous blade and the etchings are really incredible.
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
Member of the HEMA Alliance
http://hemaalliance.com/
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Maurizio D'Angelo
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Posted: Tue 03 Nov, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Michael Eging wrote: | So, is the story of the sword of Constantine XI being transmitted to Russian during the reign of Nicholas nothing more than legend? This is a gorgeous blade and the etchings are really incredible. |
I'd like to see a replica of this sword. Since it is also described as was the original grip.
Ciao
Maurizio
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Michael Eging
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Posted: Thu 05 Nov, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Maurizio D'Angelo wrote: | Michael Eging wrote: | So, is the story of the sword of Constantine XI being transmitted to Russian during the reign of Nicholas nothing more than legend? This is a gorgeous blade and the etchings are really incredible. |
I'd like to see a replica of this sword. Since it is also described as was the original grip.
Ciao
Maurizio |
I have to agree with you. I would love to see a recreation of this sword. Amazing.
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
Member of the HEMA Alliance
http://hemaalliance.com/
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Jerzy Miklaszewski
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Posted: Sun 11 Jul, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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If anyone would mind, I will carry the topic a little bit off road.
Not so long ago, while searching for the ,materials on the byzantine weponry, I found in a tertiary source (about the turkish people) that the Byzantine warriors did use the Machaira sword. It interested me, but I wasn't able to find any trace of icons, or any information (except for wikipedia - which I don't consider much of a good source). Yet I would like to find some background of that, because books and ideas are not made out of thin air.
I am really keen on finding some trace of that weapon used amongst the byzantine Xth cetnury warriors.
"Work is of two kinds, first altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relatively to other such matter, second, telling other people to do so. The first is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid."
Bertrand Russell
Art of the old swordmasters is back to the Castle of Kings!
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Lafayette C Curtis
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Posted: Sun 18 Jul, 2010 1:33 am Post subject: |
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It shouldn't be too difficult to find evidence for the use of curved swords by the Byzantines in the 10th century--by then, they would have hired Turks as allies or mercenaries already and these Turks would have brought the curved blades of their Central Asian homeland along. I'm not sure about whether the "native" Roman troops had adopted the weapon too, but I'd say it's not very unlikely for the groups that had particularly intense contact with the Turks whether of a benign or of a hostile nature. (Generals who had worked with Turkic allies/mercenaries in particular would have been good candidates as the recipient of presents from their "barbarian" associates.)
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Jack Savante
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Posted: Sun 18 Jul, 2010 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Can't remember where I found this one, but it is purportedly Byzantine.
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Michael Eging
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Posted: Thu 10 Feb, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Here is an icon from the Church of St. Mercurius, Old Cairo showing Mercurius killing Julian the Apostate.
Attachment: 97.71 KB
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
Member of the HEMA Alliance
http://hemaalliance.com/
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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Posted: Wed 16 Feb, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: Byzantine Edged Weaponry |
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To me the curved Byzantine swords might be the basis of the scimitars used in Turkey and Arab countries.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”
- Marcus Aurelius
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Lafayette C Curtis
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Posted: Tue 08 Mar, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Byzantine Edged Weaponry |
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Shahril Dzulkifli wrote: | To me the curved Byzantine swords might be the basis of the scimitars used in Turkey and Arab countries. |
Not exactly--we're not even sure where the Byzantines got their curved swords from, so we don't know whether the Byzantines borrowed the design from Central Asia, whether the Central Asians (including the Turks, especially before they got to Anatolia) borrowed from the Byzantines, or whether there was a parallel evolution in both areas with just about any conceivable degree of cross-fertilization.
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