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Grayson C.
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Location: NCF, Sarasota, FL Joined: 25 Oct 2006 No reading list Posts: 214
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Posted: Sun 15 Jun, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| If I were to add one of these rainguards to my albion ritter would it be totally out of place? I can't help but thinking of how neat this would look.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


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Location: Cincinnati, OH Joined: 18 Aug 2003 Reading list: 186 books Posts: 7335
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Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| Grayson C. wrote: | | If I were to add one of these rainguards to my albion ritter would it be totally out of place? I can't help but thinking of how neat this would look. |
I've never heard of nor seen evidence of am early to mid 13th century sword having a rainguard. In fact, many of the scabbards we see for swords of that era have flaps that extend up from the scabbard. A rainguard wouldn't fit with those scabbard flaps for sure.
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ChadA |
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Dan Dickinson

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Location: Michigan Joined: 03 Oct 2004 No reading list Posts: 798
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


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Location: Birmingham, Alabama Joined: 21 Aug 2003 Reading list: 13 books Posts: 3737
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Posted: Tue 15 Jul, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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I've finished my own rain guard / chappe project! This isn't a very good photo. In person, the stitching is almost invisible. The flap of grip wrap sewn to the chappe look a bit too plain to me. Maybe I'll add something to that--a slim border? It's very thin leather, so I doubt it would take the "star treatment".
See more info about the whole project here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=137293#137293
Thanks for the help, folks!
Attachment: 86.56 KB, Viewed: 478 times

_________________ -Sean
"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471) |
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Max W.
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Location: Germany Joined: 01 Mar 2009 No reading list Posts: 11
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Posted: Sat 31 Oct, 2009 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Greetings,
thanks to the wonderful information and the traced-through originals in this thread i finally did my first attempt in leatherworking.
The sword is recognizably an Albion Talhoffer, and the design is very roughly based on Talhoffer's drawings:
As you can see the cross leathers are quite short in the drawings, and i freely interpreted the hatching on the right piece as decorative lines.
Here it's still drying and unfinished. The leather is veg tanned swedish cowhide, approximately 2,5 mm thick.
I soaked and hardened it with water & baking soda for about 20 minutes, then tooled and sewed it.
Unfortunately due to the bending as i sewed it the tooling kept disappearing again and again, the imprint was very unwilling to last.
As it is my first attempt i don't know if i didn't punch it hard enough, or soaked it too much...or if the leather itself is the reason.
However, the repeated tooling and somewhat coarse stitching lead to this rugged and almost used look which is not unpleasant to me since i bought this sword to be a user for test cutting and verifying fencing techniques. So the used look is quite fitting.
And while drying, the too bright leather darkened and adapted itself almost perfectly to the Talhoffer's grip
and developed a wonderful irregular colouring.
The last thing i had to make was stuffing the thread endings inside it, since it is sewn from the backside,
and then finally went over the sewing and some rough spots with a bit of black shoe polish.
Now here's how it looks now, i feel like it ads a whole lot of character to the otherwise plain sword:
An utilitarian sword of a minor fencing student, thats what it is and thats what it happened to look now so fittingly. I'm very pleased.
Have a nice weekend,
Max
Last edited by Max W. on Mon 02 Nov, 2009 1:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Julien M

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Location: London Joined: 14 Sep 2005 No reading list Posts: 204
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Posted: Sat 31 Oct, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Max W. wrote: | | I'm very pleased |
And you should be as your rainguard fits the sword very well and your sword looks even better now. Good job on matching the grip color, choosing the design and molding the leather to the guard. Regarding the tooling you might want to use a swivel knife, to end up with finer lines, especially because the grip has delicate features (raisers etc). Since with that method you are superficially cutting the leather, there is no chance for it to desapear as the leather dries (no mistakes in the tracing allowed though...).
Cheers,
J
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Max W.
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Location: Germany Joined: 01 Mar 2009 No reading list Posts: 11
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Posted: Mon 02 Nov, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: |
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After some digging i was able to find the source of Mathieu's pictures on that site from the netherlands:
http://cms.dordrecht.nl/dordt?waxtrapp=iksboDsHaKnPvBYJNaC
I was mainly interested in the age of those cross leathers which seems to be 14/15th century according to the text. Here's a rough babelfish translation:
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The layman:
At the archaeological research in 1997, and 1998, on the state square in Dordrecht striking many pieces leathers have been dug up. The gesteldheid of the floor - venige the subsoil and the wet environment, concluded of air - makes that organic material such as leathers, well kept remain. With learning finds must during and are carefully dealt after an unearthing because of vulnerability. Directly if leathers are obtained from the floor the nat are kept in emmertje water. Afterwards it is cleaned carefully. Then it must be conserved leathers.
By the inwerking of substances in the ground the composition has however changed of leathers. For closer research it is for this reason the bests the cleaned leathers some time to the air to let dry to most of water have evaporated and treat it afterwards with special impregneermiddelen. For this several products in the trade, but all resources it has been existed mainly from vetsubstanties prevent which must for further desiccation, reinforce leathers and tevens smooth to make. Another conserveringsmethode are vriesdrogen. Both techniques have their specific advantages and disadvantages, but the chance that leathers become after treatment very stiff and shrink, are largest at vriesdrogen.
After leathers are preserved can it be described. Beside the forms, such as shoes in a lot of varieties, recognizable for the layman, mouths, swords trip and knife sleeves, oars, grants and clothing fragments, are themselves under the finds not recognizable parts also a lot of. Bits leathers with a derogatory form for example, of which you wonder yourself what that are could be.
Leerdeskundige Olaf Goubitz, author of the standaardwerk ' Stepping through Time' , is at present busy analyse learning finds of the unearthings on the state square. Reason too more to leave and ask him speaking for the two rectangular bits decorated leathers of approximately 7.5 at 3.5 cm.
The expert:
Olaf Goubitz have been pensioned but its profession not yet leaves him separately. He is thus still daily busy with examining archaeological leathers from several Dutch and foreign unearthings.
The first question which Olaf became were put how old the archaeological leathers from Dordrecht are approximately. Most of leathers that have been dug up in Dordrecht come from the late middle ages, tell Olaf. 95% of it exist from footwear, such a 20,000 fragments so far! Also learn grants, jerkins (clothing), foedralen, knives, daggers and sword sleeves have been found. These objects have been decorated frequently splendidly. In the grants, hanging to the belt, carried people money, keys, a peak, documents and other small stuff. The foedralen were holders for example small planks with waslaag, on which could be written. Also small notebooks, optical devices and sewing things had lederen foedraal.
Of which learning type the objects have been manufactured and on which manner they were decorated in the 14e/15e centuries? Sleeves and foedralen have been made of thick, firm (rund) leathers and could be very given full details for this reason to be decorated. With reliëfstempeltjes of for example the fleur-de-lis, ranken, animals and lines. Or from the free hand with tool. Shoes were decorated with cut out and uitgestanste characters; harten, squares, rondjes, rectangles and incisions. Unique for the Netherlands the four in Dordrecht has been found shoes with beschildering of lichtkleurige dot and line. Of jerkins the larger decorated parts are only found. The decoration exists from much short and long cut into. Much learn voorweren after their first use aim were reused, but a jerkin was, after ondraagbaar had become, unsuitable to cut for other use because of the vele it had been cut into decorations. sword sleeves have been generally decorated with simple line work.
Olaf weet much concerning archaeological leathers. He is skilful in manufacturing replicas of leathers and he can sign splendidly. Also he makes reconstruction drawings. This way the use aim of even smallest fragmentjes leathers becomes clearly for a layman. This way also for voorwerpjes of this art short sleep. What can tell Olaf about that still? This find of a couple `regenleertjes' is very interesting. Who its sword wants protect against to within leaking rain water did such a leertje around the pareerstang. A type cap, which puts in concerning of the sleeve slid.
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Not meaning to derail this thread, but have a look at this nice boots from the same site in dordrecht:
I'm just too curious how the mentioned decorated knife- and swordsheaths look like...
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Brian L Brown
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Location: Oregon Joined: 22 Oct 2009 No reading list Posts: 3
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