[Brian Robson]

Hi Justin,

I had a feeling you would already be on your way with many of my suggestions!

Like you, our group are in the process of moving period (from 1190 to 1250) - so have some inconsistencies as kit is gradually changed/replaced - so I know exactly where you're at! (I'll send a pic of my kit when I'm happy that I've finsihed with my move - hopefully be ready for spring)

That red surcote looks a lot better. Nice to see a true semi-circular mantle too (I'm currently in the process of making one.. taking ages - there's an awful lot of hem to hand-stitch!). Most I see for sale have shaping put in for the neck which just isn't right for the period.

On the mail issue, I'd definately suggest getting stuck in and doing some tailoring yourself. Off the shelf stuff never fits well and I really find it a trial and error process (ie to get the right shape - not too loose or baggy thereby reducing extra weight - yet being loose enough in the right places so movement isn't restricted).

For mail chausses, I've cheated in the past when doing late 13c by, as you suggest, cutting the mail off just below the knee. This actually worked very well in that I had slightly longer gamboised cuisses made (coming down to mid-shin) to provide cushioning underneath the tie at the top of the chausses - adding a lot of comfort. The poleyns I had then helped to keep the knee part of the cuisses in place (they were buckled over the cuisses rather than attatched to them). If you go down this route, the spare mail from chopping off the top of the chausses could be used to get your sabatons right.

Also, I've always found off-the-shelf chausses too baggy (especially around the ankle as they are often tubes and not shaped nearly enough - if at all), and like to spend time 'pulling them in'. But it often means needing to leave a split at the back of the ankle (to get your heel through when pulling htem on) which I tie with a bit of thong.


On the ailettes, that's an intrieging link you've posted. It first glance, I would have said that it was a shield on their arm and ailletes on their back (often see them at strange angles) - but it does look like you can see a bottom edge of the shield peeking out behind the guy on the left (or is it the lining of his surcoat with a big side opening?).
But I do believe that is a shield on his arm and not an ailette as shields did get very small at that time and are often seen strapped to the upper arm (not shoulder) - see how much of the forearm sticks out of these:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/histoire-du-s...ncai/1396/

Contrary to the common view, I actually believe that ailettes were also a kind of armour - and made in the same way as shields (wood faced with leather). My reasoning is that having seen a manuscript painting some time ago (and I wish I could find it now) showing longsword use on foot in 2-hands, where the combatants had these short shields strapped to their upper arms - and ailettes on shoulders - makes me think that coat-of-plates make shield coverage of the body less important - and 2-hands on weapons more important. I think that making the shield smaller and covering the gap at the shoulder with an ailette (ie a smaller piece of shield) almost gives a kind of segmented shielded side - giving you the movement to use shields with two handed weapons along with the protection to your left side (probably needed more against arrows and mounted vs lances). I also wonder that if they were purely heraldic - why would they disappear as armour coverage improves? (could always just be fashion of course).

NB. On looking at a lot more images of ailettes, I've seen quite a lot which are circular. Still no definate shield-shapes though...

[Justin Lee Hunt]

My ailettes are definatly armor. I took a sword to my right shoulder during our group's tourney, and if they hadn't been there I would be far worse off. Mine are made of slightly thinner wood than my shield (about 1/2 as thick). I have plans on making a pair of squares, but that's only for times when I have to be at the peak of accuracy (normally our group works on the philosophy that if there is nothing saying it couldn't have happened, then why not), but there are times when interpretations must be strict. Our group's seamstress, who in exchange for dues exemption does the historical sewing at cost for the members, made the mantle and surcote in the pic. I had those made when I was named baron, that's been around two promotions ago. They are both still in good condition. Right now since our period is transitional, with the next year being 1299 (our group's period progresses giving our characters more depth), I am also weighing the pros and cons of making a plated surcote. It would eliminate the need for both a coat of plates and a surcote, and it is within our general period range, but I'm at a loss of what the outer material should be. I had thought about heavy canvas so that I could just paint the heraldry on it, but I just don't know.

[S. Sebok]

My new full kit. I dunno what I should add to it if you could suggest things go right ahead. I am currently satisfied with this kit other than the horribly HOT gambeson I use under the maille which has a poly fill. Need to replace that with a new one just dont know where to find one.

[Thomas R.]

[Justin Lee Hunt]

The Thor's hammer kind of threw me a little too, and I highly recommend a surcote. It really finishes the look. As per the gambeson, I've never had one that wasn't crazy hot. I had mine made and it's still rather warm in the summer.

[David Lewis Smith]

S Sebok
A casual observation from someone who spends a lot of time in armour, both medieval and modern military ballistic armour. You do not look comfortable in your kit, especially the last photo where you are standing ‘at ease’. Consider some small leather lacing woven through your maile to adjust where the weight rests on both your body and arms. I have lacing like that at the throat to about mid chest to ‘size’ my maile, I also use my belt to hold some of the weight.
As for a gambeson I cheat, a lot. I use a PRC (pro rodeo) bull riders vest. Its under the armour so no one sees it, it has great impact absorbing qualities. Mine is black with a cloth exterior. I wear underarmour under my armour as well. Gambesons are basically jackets as you know and bloody warm. You can make your own however if you have any skill sewing and leave out every other ‘quilt’ and use a sweat distributing cloth. Doing any kind of serous reinacting in hot weather sucks. I am in North Carolina normally and late May through mid September is ‘challenging’.
Making a more period looking buckle is fairly easy and most of the things you need can be found at Lowe’s or Home Depot. There are lots of places to buy the stuff on line but there is a satisfaction of making the stuff yourself.
Over all it is a great looking kit that just needs some minor tweaking

[Johan S. Moen]

S Sebok:

Nice looking kit! If you get a new gambeson, be sure to get a collar with it(either integrated or separate), especially if you plan on doing any fighting in the kit. I'd also recommend getting rid of the belts with the modern hardware, replacing them with something period.

I agree with the others on loosing the thors hammer. In fact, don't bother with any pendants at all I'd say. They don't seem to have been extremely common as jewellery goes, and we don't know much about how and by whom they were worn at any rate. If you want more crosses, get them as belt/scabbard fittings or surcoat appliques instead.

Johan Schubert Moen

[Tibor Szebenyi]

Eastern equipments are rare on myArmoury, so here is my mamluk kit (around the Ottoman invasion, 1517):

http://nomadok.gportal.hu/picview.php?prt=953...mp;index=1

Helmet, boots, bow and sabre were made by craftsmen, every other piece is my work.

Do not watch the other pictures, thoose are old ones. Now I am waiting for the opportunity to make mounted pictures.

[David Lewis Smith]

Really Nice Kit Tibor.

and yes, I looked at the others, they are all very nice, you did a lot of good work on the Armour

[Steven Robinson]

Here is my kit I am wearing at the Baltimore Rennisance Faire.

[Sander Alsters]

Hi Tibor! Im stunned of your kit, im working on one of my own. Because of my study and huge lack of money and time:-P it is going very slow! But your kit is one of the nicest I have ever seen. You must tell me who made your helmet, I hope you dont mind but I had the same one in mind.

One remark though. It was my understanding that the colour green was the colour of Islam. Wearing green pants could be seen as an insult for Islam. Usually soldiers wore yellow-ish pants to show off they were soldiers. Blue was also used very much because it stood for protection. And offcourse red. Purple was a really royal colour. Dont understnd me wrong I love your kit.

Kind regards and hopefully we could extchange some sources!

[Tibor Szebenyi]

Thanks!

My helmet and my saber is made by István Sepsik, a Hungarian smith. www.sepsik.hu
He is famous for his helmets, go for "Sisakok" in the menu!

For the colour: the green is the color of Muhammad descendants, not of Islam. This myth is also known in Hungary, that under the Ottoman invasion the Turks killed immediately a hussar in green pants, therefore Hungarian hussars (and of course moslims) didn't wear green pants.

1. remark: if it was an insult, every hussar would have wear green pants.

2. remark: an article by Gábor Szőllősy:
http://nimrod-mohacs.neobase.hu/content/t%C3%...r%C3%A1got

The relationship is quite good between Hungarian and Turkish archers. In this article Murat Özveri and other Turkish archers were interviewed about this topic. Though some of them are strict, religious moslims, they have not heard about it. Hilmi Aric wrote that only a descendant of the Prophet may wear green turban. And You can see several pictures of green-legged Ottoman Turks.

Maybe in some smaller moslim communities it can be counted as an insult, but I am interested in the Mamluk Sultanate and the Ottoman Empire.

[Sander Alsters]

Thanx Tibor for all the information! I couldnt make out any of the words on the website but it looks awesome! please show some more pictures of your kit!

[J. McGee]

Here is a late 14th century man-at-arms kit I've been working on for a bit now. The shoulders, arms, and helm are going to be replaced. Also going to add gauntlets. This is pretty much my first "real" kit. It took a while to get to this point, but from what I've seen on these forums a nice kit may take years to develop!

[S. Sebok]

Yeah, I need new belts, I always knew they didn't fit in properly. The Thors hammer is only there cause I forgot to take it off when the pics were taken it isn't part of my kit. The helm needs painting as it does not fit the rest of the kit being as shiny as all can be. I was considering gun bluing it though to match the maille and resist rust but paint may have to do. Tailoring the maille is a must as the hanging extra weight makes it really uncomfortable to wear. Surely will take off many pounds afterward. Of course i'm doing that after I get a new decent gambeson.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Justin Lee Hunt]

Out of curiosity, Mr. McGee, do you have a helm style picked out for the final replacement?

[J. McGee]

[Christopher VaughnStrever]

I will be making a seperate thread for the event that I just put on, though in the mean time (while my videos are getting uploaded) here is a couple of the latest pics of some students I have been teaching

[Justin Lee Hunt]

English armor is a bit more complicated to find, but German is a lot nicer IMHO. I wish you luck and you are off to a great start.