myArmoury.com - Ornamentation: Fantasy vs. History (photo-intensive)

Nate C. · Posted: Sun 15 May, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject:

We haven't had any posts in here for a while so here's a few to get us started again. Truth is again more fantastic than fantasy. Big Grin

Nathan - I finally found the pic with Maximilian I's messer and longsword Cool

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Cheers,

Hisham Gaballa · Posted: Wed 20 Jul, 2005 7:09 am Post subject:

As someone who has played computer Fantasy Role playing games and posted on RPG forums I couldn't agree more. Many fantasy games designers and players idea of a beautiful sword are grotesque and totally impractical "Anime" style swords. There are a lot of exceptions to this of course and I have myself tried to influence people into admiring more elegant and simple designs such as 15th century European longswords, Persian shamshirs and Turkish yataghans, with decidedly mixed results.

My own contribution to the pictures are these two swords from the "Blessed Swords" collection in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul. These are swords attributed to the Prophet Muhammad and his companions while some of these are undoubtedly early Arab swords, others seem to be 15th century century Iranian swords. These two belong to the latter category.

Because of the Blessed Swords status as "sacred relics", many have been elaborately ornamented and decorated in later periods which makes dating them even more difficult.

Craig Peters · Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject:

From Hermann Historica:

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

That rapier is fantastic, Craig, thanks for sharing that! I love the nod to classical Greco-Roman art that was so prevalent in the Italian Renaissance.

Craig Peters · Posted: Mon 12 Dec, 2005 11:03 pm Post subject:

Alexander Hinman · Posted: Tue 13 Dec, 2005 8:46 am Post subject:

Craig, those are some really awesome swords.

The one I find really interesting and quite curious is the falchion with the African heads on the pommel and crossguard. I mean, thinking in terms of the position of most Europeans toward Africa at the time, it makes me wonder why you would model a sword on a caricatured African's head.

Alot of this detail Is amazing. The level of etching, casting, etc. are all spectacular, and I think it's unfortunate (mostly for our interests) modern rulers don't greet each other with gifts of a similar type (an etched Winchester, perhaps)

One thing I've noticed about all of these ornate swords is that the basic shape of the blade is simplistic in comparison to many of the fantasy blades I've seen (with jagged serrations, holes, and divots etc.) so in that respect, I wonder if there are any historical examples of odd-shaped blades. I doubt there would be, but hey, it's worth asking.

Felix Wang · Posted: Tue 13 Dec, 2005 10:33 am Post subject:

Entering this discussion at a very late date, it seems to me that a dividing line can be drawn somewhere around 1400 to 1450; swords after this time are generally decorated (even models made for mass distribution to enlisted men tend to have some trim - eagle-head pommel, rope trim to the guard, and so on); and later swords often show decoration that alters the outline of the weapon. It is in the earlier period that most of the plain (and they can be very plain) war swords are seen - i.e. a spike hilt and disc pommel, and nothing else. There are a small fraction of the swords of this period that are elaborately decorated - but the decoration is entirely on the surface. If these swords are back-lit, their silhouettes are identical to those of many of their plainer brethren. As a generalization, it seems the decorated swords of the earlier era belong to persons of very high status - princes and kings; whereas many of the Renaissance and later elaborate swords belong to persons of rank, but nothing like royalty.