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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > My collection of schiavone Reply to topic
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 12:10 am    Post subject: My collection of schiavone         Reply with quote

Several years ago, I took a liking to the schiavona. At the time, the choices for replica schiavone were limited to lower-end production models. Very few custom makers were tackling these types of sword hilts due to their complexity. Since then, we've had a few makers come into the scene (and some leave the scene) who have found the secret to producing these difficult hilts.

Over these years, I've contacted a variety of makers, shopping around the idea of adding to my collection of reproduction schiavone. The result has lead me to seven examples that are still in my own collection.

It's been quite some time since I've shown the pieces. Now that I've had a couple more arrive in the last year, I thought it was a good idea to show them grouped together. The new pieces will be featured on this site in upcoming collection updates, so please do keep an eye out for more detailed photos and measurements when they get published.

Please see my Spotlight Article on the Schiavona for further information on the schiavona and its typology.




Top to bottom:

Del Tin 2170 Schiavona
This production model is from 1991 and really does well to represent the crude munitions-grade examples found throughout surviving antique collections. It has a Type 2 hilt.

E.B. Erickson Germanic Basket-hilt
Strictly speaking, this is not a true schiavona, but rather a "continental" basket-hilt. The construction methodology, however, is quite similar to that of the schiavona and so it's included here for the sake of comparison. This hilt is mounted on a blade made by E.B. Erickson.

Phoenix Metal Creations Blackened Type 1 Schiavona
This is a recent arrival to my collection and is my only example of the Type 1 hilt style. Its hilt is blackened in a worn blue-black finish. Note that the pommel is of steel and includes a "staple" to the knuckle-bow as is found on many surviving antiques. This hilt is mounted on a wide single-fullered blade made by Angus Trim and refinished by Erik Stevenson.

TEMPL Schiavona
Patrick Bárta made this Type 2 example for me. The blade was made in accordance with an example mounted on a schiavona in Malbork, Poland. The hilt was inspired by an example in Lysice castle, and the original pommel and scabbard that provided inspiration can be found in a Prague museum. The blade has a single fuller with incised markings that form a stylized rosary.

Phoenix Metal Creations Type 2b Schiavona
Another piece by Erik Stevenson of Phoenix Metal Creations, this was the first one he created for me. It has a fully developed Type 2b hilt with a complex and ornate pommel. This hilt is mounted on a highly-modified blade made by Angus Trim. It is single-edged and has a thin filler near its spine.

E.B. Erickson Schiavona
Another new acquisition, this example has a stylized Type 2 hilt. It's modeled after an example in Oakeshott's European Weapons and Armour: From the Renaissance to the Industrial Revolution. It has a highly-modified blade made by Den Tin with a wide fuller.

Del Tin 5173 Schiavona
Another hilt of Type 2 form, this is the current version that Del Tin offers. Its quality is much higher than the previous model and, like that model, it has a double-edged blade with a small fuller.

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William Goodwin




PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 2:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan,

You know my fondness for Schiavona's is only overshadowed by my obsession with
Mortuary's!!

As always.....thanks for sharing your grand collection of these beautiful swords.

Cheers,

Bill

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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 4:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is a beautiful collection of schiavone, Nathan. Cool Thanks for sharing, and I look forward to your future updates.
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Russ Ellis




PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 6:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice and the most extensive collection of the type that I'm aware of (except for of course you know those museums and such... Happy )

My favorite: Still that first one that Eric made for you gosh what a loss to the community his retirement was!!!!

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Terry Crain




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PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 7:28 am    Post subject: Schiavona Collection         Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing this ultimate collection of Schiavona. I look forward to your additional photo's and information from your collection section, which are always top-notch.

Looking at a group of swords like this always sparks my imagination. I can just envision a company of mercenaries sitting around the guardroom in the gatehouse tower of the Doge's citadel, dicing, perhaps drinking and eating, with these sword sitting in a weapon rack, near at hand. Suddenly, the peal of a bell rings out sounding the alarm. The mercenaries drop their dice, leap-up, grab a sword and head to their posts.

My question to the forumites and Nathan in particular is, assuming you are one of the soldiers, which sword would you pick? I realize that without actually holding each, seeing the weight, balance, blade length, feel, edge, temper, etc., in person, its and unfair question as far as performance, so I guess its just personal preference on the look.

Hmmmmmmmmm, I am not sure I could decide, and would be left with the last one not selected!!!

Fun to dream. Bravo Nathan!

Terry

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James Holczer




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PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 8:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan,

Love the new Phoenix Metal Creations Type 1, that is just beautiful. Just how recent of an addition is that beauty. Because it's my understanding that Erik Stevenson isn't producing anything new and is only finishing pre-existing projects he has in his que.

Jim Holczer
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You have a fantastic grouping of schiavone! What publication offers the hilt typology?

Thank you,
Jonathan
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 9:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.G. Hopkins wrote:
What publication offers the hilt typology?


Here's a start: http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_schia.html

Happy

James Holczer wrote:
. Just how recent of an addition is that beauty. Because it's my understanding that Erik Stevenson isn't producing anything new and is only finishing pre-existing projects he has in his que.


Erik still isn't taking any new orders and is still clearing out his queue.

Happy

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Bob Burns




PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan, your Schiavona collection is splendid, I clearly need to learn much more about schiavonas and baskethilts, as well as mortuary swords, of these three I know next to nothing. But I do know beauty when I see it and Nathan your collection is very beautiful!

Bob
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Bruno Giordan




PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congratulations Nathan for your collection, your love for this piece of venetian artistry is really commendable.

I have been lucky enough to manipulate several original schiavonas with different blades, narrow double fulered, wide lentcular ones, they arever quick and light as feathers.

Manipulating real rapiers wih elaborated hilt didn't give me the same handling pleasure, even if they were visually superior, the engineering of the schiavone appeared unsurpassed.

The schiavona makes me feel proud of my venetian ancestry, along with the renaissance works of the venetian painting school.
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.G. Hopkins wrote:
What publication offers the hilt typology?


Chad Arnow wrote:
Here's a start: http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_schia.html.


Thanks, Chad! Of course it's right here on myArmoury--one of the few times I did not do a search before asking!
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Bruno Giordan




PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

P;S;

What's your opinion on the current deltin?

You made me feel willing to take a stroll to the factory at Maniago.
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




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PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan, I'm highly impressed by you Schiavona collection. They are all so attractive!
My favourites judging by the pictures are the Germanic one by Eljay and the blackened type one schiavona by Eric Stevenson.
Though I love the others, there is something with the more rugged side of these two that I think is so neat. Hmmm... Much of the same reason as why I'm particularily fond of snouted ribbon hilts. The type one schiavonas and the snouted ribbon hilts looks like something meant for in-fighting. Punching out the teeth (or brains) of the oponent. They look VERY serious! Big Grin

You must have a lot of great time just handling them, cleaning them and taking sexy photos of them! Big Grin

Do you yourself have any definite favourite among them? Or are you "fair and balanced"? Razz Big Grin

Cheers,
Henrik

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

IMO, the Phoenix Metal Creation type 2b is still the best. The Templ runs a very close second
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 4:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Really attractive " bunch " there and if I had to choose a favourite just on looks it would be almost impossible to not keep changing one's mind: Handling each might narrow things down ?

Looking forward to seeing multiple pics of each from various angles as side shots only show a small part of all the visual activity. Big Grin

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for the comments. It's always nice to show these things and see what people think. It has taken a long time to gather even these up. As mentioned, there just isn't a lot of people willing to tackle this type of hilt who are able to do it justice and not for an arm and a leg. One problem with collecting complex-hilted swords is that the prices get, well, complex, too! I'm still shopping for more of these things and am keeping an eye out for new makers and opportunities. It's a fun collection niche, for sure.


James Holczer wrote:
Love the new Phoenix Metal Creations Type 1, that is just beautiful. Just how recent of an addition is that beauty. Because it's my understanding that Erik Stevenson isn't producing anything new and is only finishing pre-existing projects he has in his que.

I just received this sword over the last month. Erik's long since closed for business, but continues to work metal as he find the time. He did have a queue of people lined up, and those who have opted to stay in it have agreed to wait patiently for his completion of their project as he finds time to fit it into his new life. At one time, I had seven items in the queue: yes, I like Erik's work that much. For now, I've told him to make what he wants, if he wants, and I'll take it. This schiavona was started and completed as a bit of a surprise to me. What a wonderful surprise.

J.G. Hopkins wrote:
What publication offers the hilt typology?

As Chad has mentioned, you can read about the typology is our Schiavona Spotlight Article. The only typology of which I am aware, and the one that I have used as reference, is that by Ewart Oakeshott, published in European Weapons and Armour: From the Renaissance to the Industrial Revolution.

Bruno Giordan wrote:
What's your opinion on the current deltin?

I'd say that it's the best of the production schiavone available. The custom work is on a different level, of course, but the Del Tin is a good sword. We have a Hands-on review of it that Bill Grandy did. The sword in the review is mine, in fact. I've seen five of the DT5173s and the first two (the ones i acquired) were the best all-around, but they were all pretty consistent. I imagine that if the basket were taken to a higher finish with some polishing, buffing, and grinding, that the sword would step up to a completely different level. It's on my list of things I want to do.

Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote:
Do you yourself have any definite favourite among them? Or are you "fair and balanced"?

I don't really have a favorite. They're all so different from one-another both in terms of the way they look, the style, and the handling properties. Each sword has its own worthwhile attributes. I guess I'd say I lean towards a different one each time I pull them out and swing them around. The EBE Schiavona is up there, right now.

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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




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PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I know the feeling of getting a new sword Big Grin

Cheers,
Henrik

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William Goodwin




PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Del-Tin 2170 has always been my personal fav of the lot.

For some reason ,the simplistic, raw, munition quality of it struck a nerve with me.

So sad that they discontinued this model......



Bill

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Jean-Carle Hudon




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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct, 2006 9:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan,
this is a bit off topic in the sense that it relates more to military garb, but as you know I have a Cervenka schiavona ( which I tried to post unsuccesfully, one day I'll have someone who knows about these damn machines come in and explain the basics...) anyway, I have a schiavona and I am unable to find pictures of what the slavs in service of Venice would wear, do you have any suggestions or links to sites which would show the schiavona being worn by guardsmen, or even about town?
And, yes you have a beautiful collection. I noticed that you favor a more polished or satin finish, any reason you don't go in for the more aged or distressed look?
Jean-Carle

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct, 2006 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean-Carle Hudon wrote:
Nathan,
this is a bit off topic in the sense that it relates more to military garb, but as you know I have a Cervenka schiavona ( which I tried to post unsuccesfully, one day I'll have someone who knows about these damn machines come in and explain the basics...) anyway, I have a schiavona and I am unable to find pictures of what the slavs in service of Venice would wear, do you have any suggestions or links to sites which would show the schiavona being worn by guardsmen, or even about town?
And, yes you have a beautiful collection. I noticed that you favor a more polished or satin finish, any reason you don't go in for the more aged or distressed look?


Finding such artwork is difficult, at best. I've searched. I imagine there might be an Osprey titlte or two with some modern paintings of such things, but nothing in my own library.

I no longer have the Cervenka schiavona. I sold it to raise money for other things. The Erik Stevenson Type 1 has filled that gap nicely.

In terms of finish, since i collect reproductions and not antiques, I'd much rather have them appear as their contemporary inspirations may have. I'm not really interested in reproductions that appear to be antiques. That's just not my thing. In terms of a rustic nature, the DT2170 is exactly that: rough. I've got other swords with such qualities, but nothing that would appear "aged" or try to pass as an antique.

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