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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It does resemble a "parlor pistol". It will probably fire cb or bb cap ammo. These are very small cartridges, similar to the Flobert caps. They have no propellent charge. The priming is what moves the projectile. The engraving on the breech, left side, which I cannot read very well, probably refers to the recommended ammunition for the gun. It does have set triggers. Pull the rear trigger to set the front trigger and the front trigger fires the pistol.

CB and BB caps are very weak cartridges, but still dangerous, so shooting outside would be my recommendation, if you decide to shoot it. I would never fire .22 short ammo in the gun.

Lin

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Jeff Pelehac




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PostPosted: Mon 04 Dec, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have never shot this gun. I was just told by the individual that it used a .22 round. Of course, he was nieve to the fact of what caliber it actually was.
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R Looije




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PostPosted: Mon 04 Dec, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lin Robinson wrote:
The engraving on the breech, left side, which I cannot read very well, probably refers to the recommended ammunition for the gun.
Lin

0,2 gr NGP m/71
1,3 gr 6
You mean that one?
Anyway, I'm guessing the first digit is a 0, because a 6 would taper more, as in the second line.
I think that's something other than the listing of prefered ammo for the gun, unless in that time period they measured the bullets in weight, rather than size.

[EDIT: on closer inspection the second digit on the second line was a 3, not an 8... oops]

"Ik worstel en kom boven" (I struggle and prevail) - Motto for Zeeland, Holland
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Cal Harling




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PostPosted: Tue 05 Dec, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff, Your pistol is definitely a saloon or parlor pistol but it is a much nicer piece than most of the ones I've seen. It is probably chambered for 6mm Flobert BB caps which are still in production by Dynamit Nobel and available from a number of sources. They are shorter than a 22 short. The BB stands for Ball Breech. They use a round ball of about 15 grains in weight and are propelled by a small primer charge. There is no powder in the case. You should NOT use 22 BB or CB caps. They may chamber but extended use may cause expansion of the back end of the chamber, at least that is what I have read. Firing a 22 short will probably damage the gun and may cause personal injury to you. Personally I think I would appreciate this for what it is, an exquisite piece of history from an age now past. Guns of this type were popular in Europe from the 1850's until after WWI. They actually were shot in parlors and often in pubs for wagers of beer.

The 0.2 gr NGP M/71 marking refers to the load used in proofing your gun, .2 grains of an early nitro rifle powder used in the first smokeless loads for the 1871 Mauser. This load was not in use long and dates your gun from the 1880s to around 1900. You may find that the patent number refers to this powder and not the gun itself.

You didn't mention whether you have looked at the bore of this gun using a bore light. Many pistols of this type are smoothbore rather than rifled. Almost all will have some pitting of the bore due to corrosive priming compounds.

The lines of yours are particularly nice. I love the way the barrel flows from octagonal forward of the breech to the round section with its two raised rings back to an octagonal cap at the muzzle. Those kinds of touches are found only on very high end firearms these days.

Collector value on these is usually low in this country. What you could get for it in terms of cash would in no way reflect its rarity or craftsmanship. I'm not going to guess at a number though, you would really need to have it looked at by a qualified appraiser for that.
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info on the CB, BB caps. If the chamber is for a 6mm cartridge then you will get case head ballooning (or rupturing) and eventual chamber damage, as Carl said. Dixie Gun Works still offers the Flobert caps. I noticed them for sale in their 2007 catalog.
Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 5:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oops...check that. DGW does NOT have the 6mm Flobert cartridges. What they have are 9mm shot cartridges. Sorry for misleading you.
Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Brandon Biczo




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think that it probably dates from around WW1. It looks like something that would have been given to someone of high ranking like a general. I think that it dates from around 1900-WW1.
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Brandon Biczo




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brandon Biczo wrote:
I think that it probably dates from around WW1. It looks like something that would have been given to someone of high ranking like a general. I think that it dates from around 1900-WW1.
I think that it is a pre-WW1 flare pistol.
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brandon Biczo wrote:
Brandon Biczo wrote:
I think that it probably dates from around WW1. It looks like something that would have been given to someone of high ranking like a general. I think that it dates from around 1900-WW1.
I think that it is a pre-WW1 flare pistol.


Brandon...

I believe you are incorrect on both counts. It is a parlor pistol, which was designed to be used for indoor target shooting with small, low-powered cartridges. While it could have been given to a high-ranking officer, it is closer to being a toy than a weapon - although it could still be lethal if used carelessly. I can assure you that it is NOT a flare pistol.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Michael Vickers




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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: Cousins         Reply with quote

Google directed me to this forum while trying to research an old pistol that I own. It is likely a "cousin" to Jeff Pelehac's pistol by looking at the images he posted. Mine also shares a (single) ring on the barrel, double triggers, trigger guard, the same mfg. marks with exception to the "G" with the crown on top. I have little doubt that both mine and Jeff's pistols came from the same factory.

The engraving patterns are identical and mine bears the proof marks 0.05gr N.G.R M/71 and below that 1gr. Bl. I noted earlier in this tread that the "B" was thought to be the number 3 but on mine it is stamped very clear.

This pistol has a rifled barrel and chambers .22LR without any problems. As a teen I shot it several times. The only history I know is that it used to belong to my grandfather and it was passed on to my father who recently passed it on to me.

I hope you fellows don't mind me reopening an old thread but I too am very interested in the history and any information on these pistols.



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Greyson Brown




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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael,

I am by no means an expert on these types of firearms, but I find your example to be rather interesting as the release lever is on the right side of the pistol. This set up would imply that the intended user was left handed (the lever would be under the thumb if the gun was held in the left hand), and I have trouble believing that such a set up was factory default (even today, left handed firearms are uncommon). I am not familiar with parlor pistols, and it may be that they tended to be custom or semi-custom products, but the fact that yours seems to be intended for a left handed shooter makes me even more curious. Was your grandfather left handed? If not, do you know of anyone he might have received the pistol from who was left handed?

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Michael Vickers




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Grey

Thank you for your reply. I admit that I had not made the connection that mine was a left handed pistol. I think you are 100% right on in your observation.

I just got off of the phone with my Dad who said that my Grandfather did indeed shoot left handed. Grandpa was a bit of a gun collector and I suppose it's possible that he had ordered this pistol but I suspect it's mfg. actually predates him as he was born in 1904.

During the time of WW1 he would have been in his early teens and probably unlikely to be at the age where he would be ordering a left handed pistol.

I also suspect that this pistol must have been made prior to the great war as my history seems to recall Germany was a real mess after the war and there were sanctions on firearms/weapons.

I did a little research on .22 cartridges and learned that the .22 long was introduced in 1871 and it appears that at that time was a blackpowder cartridge. The .22 LR was introduced in 1887 and it took advantage of the early smokeless powders.

At this point I'm assuming based on the proof marks being given in both N.G.P. and Bl. that it is indeed chambered for .22 long rifle. I also note that the proof loadings are roughly three times the normal powder loads of that era and I'm guessing that would be to show a margin of safety.


My Grandfather was a mechanic by trade and the kind of guy who was always willing to barter if the deal was fair. My Dad who was born in 1930, says he doesn't recall the day this pistol "came home" but he recalls it being around during his childhood. It is very likely Grandpa traded work in exchange for this pistol. Possibly during the early depression.

I think the secret as to who made this pistol lays in the German Patent number that is on Jeff's pistol. Unfortunatly I'm finding that to be a dead end as far an a internet search goes. My pistol does not bear a patent number.

So what I think I know for certain (info mostly gleened from this thread) is this pistol was made in Germany sometime between 1887 and WW1. I also know that it is indeed chambered for the .22LR.

And that's about it. Any further information would be most welcome.
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Michael Hoppe




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PostPosted: Mon 28 Sep, 2009 3:36 am    Post subject: Your pistol is a Langenhan..         Reply with quote

Hi Jeff,

I'm new on this forum but I have been collecting single shot antique target pistols for a number of years now. The pistol that you have is a Langenhan. Langenhan was a German arms manufacturer based in Zella Mehlis. The factory started around 1842 as a manufacturer of arms parts (locks, trigger guards) and became big through it's contract for the centrefire revolver for the German Armed Forces (Sächsische Kriegsministerium Model 1873). Langenhan's major claim to fame is a pocket pistol in .32 ACP known as the FL-Selbstlader, which was used by the German Army in WWI as a second rate pistol.

Langenhan built a series of target pistols between 1891 and 1910, based on his patent number 73855. That number should be on the side of your pistol. You can find a lot more information in the book written by Ott Halfmann, "Die Scheibenpistole".
The 0,2 gr. N.G.P. M71 means "neues gewehr pulver", suitable for the Model 1871 service rifle. I.e., At that time the slightly more powerfull blackpowder came into use and this pistol is proofed to 0,2 gram (30 grains) of Black Powder. Please note that this is NOT for nitro powder, the M71 was only suited to Black Powder!

Value in Europe of this pistol depends on the calibre and of course the condition but I would say between €500 and €800.

Take care,
Michael
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Vernon Suihkonen




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PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Langenhan         Reply with quote

I also have a possible langenhan only mine has a single trigger and hammer. The barrel is 12 inches long and is octagon the bore has riflings, on the bottom side of the barrel are the letters B followed by G with a U below the B and a 3 below below the U. the grip is identicle to the posted pictures on this site but thats the only wood on the gun.Mine also has the same powder markings on the left side. Does anyone know the app. year this was made and the estimated value ? any help would be appreciated thank you, vern
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GG Osborne




PostPosted: Sun 14 Mar, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would recommend extreme caution if you ever are tempted to fire this pistol. If it was made to fire BB rounds, a modern .22 short could cause damage to you and the pistol as modern powder produces significantly more force and pressure than its 19th C equivalent. .22 BB cartridges are available from firms like Dixie Gun Works in Union City, TN.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Jonathan Atkin




PostPosted: Mon 15 Mar, 2010 2:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bring it to a gunsmith
"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness''. - Theodore Roosevelt
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