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Pierre T.
Location: Ottawa, Canada Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 63
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 Posted: Sat 12 Nov, 2011 10:57 am Post subject: |
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The text was first published in 1760, so it's not exactly medieval. I suspect that this would have been used by a civilian with an oculist bend who had, for some reason, to fight (duel? Afraid of brigands?) rather than a professional soldier, but who knows?
Anyway, I thought that a more accurate translation was in order.
| Quote: | Contre un coup d'épée.
Avant d'aller vous battre, écrivez sur un ruban, de n'importe quelle couleur, les deux mots: Buoni jacum. Serrez-vous le poignet droit avec ce ruban; soyez sans crainte, défendez-vous, et l'épée de votre ennemi ne vous touchera point. |
Against a sword blow.
Before going to fight, write on a ribbon, of any colour, the two words: Buoni jacum. Wrap your right wrist with this ribbon; be without fear, defend yourself, and you foe's sword will touch you not.
And while we are at it:
| Quote: | Pour n'être blessé d'aucune arme.
Dites tous les matins: je me lève au nom de J.-C. qui a été crucifié pour moi: Jésus me veuille bénir; Jésus me veuille conduire; Jésus me veuille bien garder; Jésus me veuille bien gouverner et conduire à la vie éternelle, au nom du Père, et du Fils, et du Saint-Esprit. Les faut dire trois fois en se couchant, en se levant. On écrira sur l'épée ou l'arme dont on voudra se servir ce qui suit: Ibel, Ebel, Abel. |
To be wounded by no weapon
Every morning, say: I get up in the name of J.-C. who was crucified for me: Jesus wants me blessed, Jesus wants me guided, Jesus wants me well guarded, Jesus wants me well governed and lead to eternal life, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. These words must be said three times while laying down and while rising. One will write on the sword or the weapon that one will wish to use the following: Ibel, Ebel, Abel.
This one was hard to translate, specifically the "Jesus me veuille" tense, I'm not entirely sure what is the best verb tense in English to convey the meaning.
I will also note that there is a longer and more convoluted spell that seems to involves capturing the soul of a dying man (someone being hanged being recommended) as part of the spell-casting, so some seem to go beyond mere "lucky charms".
Should I continue?
(the source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/2024763/Grimoire-du-Pape-Honorius-2 )
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Paul Hansen
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| Posted: Mon 14 Nov, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Pierre T. wrote: | | Should I continue? |
Yes please. 
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Christopher VaughnStrever
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| Posted: Mon 14 Nov, 2011 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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continuing the subject material Pierre is bringing forth I understand, though again this material is not mysticism of the teaching and understanding in the wma, however it is rather superstitious and religious belief of a culture added to aspects of wma
Experience and learning from such defines maturity, not a number of age
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Paul Hansen
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| Posted: Tue 15 Nov, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Christopher VaughnStrever wrote: | | continuing the subject material Pierre is bringing forth I understand, though again this material is not mysticism of the teaching and understanding in the wma, however it is rather superstitious and religious belief of a culture added to aspects of wma |
The question is whether it can be distinguished in the historical context.
There seems to be a lot of evidence that there are at least several aspects of mysticism / magic that tie in directly to combat. That makes sense considering the influence of religion and mysticism on all aspects of medieval life.
To me it's beyond doubt that a modern person can practice the physical side of medieval fighting arts (or any fighting art from any time and place) without bothering with the mystical aspects. However, it is the question how a medieval fighter would experience his art. And from the evidence so far presented in this thread, it seems that for a medieval person, the physical and the mystical aspects were closely tied.
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Jess Rozek
Location: Burlington, VT Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Off hand I remember reading something about Vikings setting stones (notably amber) into their scabbards and I believe that may have had something to do with the idea that different gems mean different things. Could this be considered a form of mysticism? I mean it is a belief in something that is scientifically (among other things) unfounded...
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Pierre T.
Location: Ottawa, Canada Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu 17 Nov, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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So, another spell from the same Grimoire!
(note: this may be offensive to some people as it's straying into what some people would call "Black Magic". You've been warned)
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Pour être dur contre toutes sortes d'armes.
Prenez de l'eau bénite de Pâques et de la fleur de froment; faites une pâte de cela, et vous trouvez au trépas de quelqu'un qui meurt de mort violente, comme d'un pendu, ou autre justicier; approchez le plus près de lui que vous pourrez, et sans rien dire, mettez votre pâte à l'air; puis quand vous jugerez qu'il passe, conjurez son esprit de venir s'enfermer dans votre pâte, pour vous défendre contre toutes sortes d'armes: retournez chez vous, et faites des petites boules; entortillez-les dans du parchemin vierge, où il y ait écrit ce qui suit: 1. u, n., 1., a. Fau, 1. Moot, et Dorhort. Amen. Il faut avaler ces boules.
Il faut dire, en faisant les boules, cinq fois Pater, et cinq fois Ave, etc.
Nota. Que le nombre de ces boules est arbitraire, et qu'on écrit les caractères précédents sur un seul morceau de parchemin vierge, que l'on partage en autant de parties que l'on fera de boulettes. Il faut nommer le nom de baptême du patient dans la conjuration. |
To be hard against all sort of weapons
Take Easter holy water and flower of wheat (flour?), make a paste of this, and find yourself near someone who's dying a violent death, like a hanged man or some other condemned to death, get as close as him as you can and, without a word, expose your paste to the air, and when you judge that he is passing away, conjure his spirit to come trap itself in your paste, to defend yourself against all sorts of weapons: go back to your place, and make little balls; twist them into virgin parchment, where it is written what follows: 1. u, n., 1., a. Fau, 1. Moot, and Dorhort. Amen. (this may be a bad scan). These balls must be swallowed.
While crafting these balls, one must say five times Paters and five times Ave. etc (catholic prayers I believe)
Nota: That the number of these balls is arbitrary, and that one write the preceding characters on a single piece of virgin parchment, that is split into as many parts as one will make balls. The baptismal name of the patient (the dead? the spellcaster?) must be named during the conjuration.
Froment is an old fashion name for common wheat, but it may be an allegory for something else. Sorry about the really long run on sentence, it's how it's written.
So yeah, stealing the soul of the dying to save your butt...
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 17 Nov, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Christian Henry Tobler wrote: | It's good to remember too that some practices that exist in a 'mystic' context do have tangible benefit, with the ritualistic overtones simply acting as window dressing to create a state of mind. The benefit just doesn't happen for the reasons originally ascribed to it.
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I think this is basically matches my point of view expressed with less verbiage.    |
Quoting Christian and quoting myself and to make a point here that there seems to be two very different ways to discuss this subject:
A) A general period context where religious belief mixed with superstition and belief in good luck charms had an effect, mostly psychological, that are possibly relevant to the way someone would approach deadly combat.
B) Very specific beliefs that would be an inclusive part of the way the fighting arts would be taught: Integral to how one would be shown or told to move or part of tactical or the strategies one could use in fighting. In other words things that would be essential to the art based on some mystical ideas that would have practical effects in reaching a mind/body high level of competence or useful " visualizations " ( Che, inner power or sense of balance).
These might not actually be essential to learning the art but still be a useful shortcut explaining/teaching what is hard to put into words or instructions.
Early on on this Topic it seemed that the teaching of HEMA was very much a practical down to earth thing when it came to teaching someone how to do it and any " fairy dust/magic swords " ( joke ) was limited to epic fairy tales or what I describe in (A).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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